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Original poster

Changes to 11-plus to stop middle-class parents 'buying' access to grammars by hiring tutors

999 replies

breadandbutterfly · 01/12/2012 21:48

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2241411/Changes-11-plus-stop-parents-buying-access-selective-schools-hiring-tutors-children.html

Similar article in the Times apparently but paywall.

OP posts:
dinkybinky · 02/12/2012 17:19

I think you are a total wind up Ronaldo. I have friends at state schools in the SE of England, they are all professionals, lawyers, doctors, accountants etc, have 2 luxury cars, own 5 bed homes, go on holiday 3 or 4 times a year their children are educated and polite. I don?t think you really know anything about state or private school for that matte,r and it sounds like you live in some god awful part of the UK If that?s your interpretation of state schools in the area.

wigglybeezer · 02/12/2012 17:20

I feel sorry for Ronaldo's DS, having such a controlling and overbearing parent, he might really enjoy sport or scouts. What happens if he meets a lovely young woman from the wrong gene pool?

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:20

*Furthermore what will you do of they should end up at the same university .
How bizarre to build a life around keeping your son away from most of society.

I do think that you are a figment if your own imagination . Or rather, I hope you are*
Thats not necessary arisbottle. I havent been rude to you. You asked,I answered and then you dont like the answers?

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:22

"I feel sorry for Ronaldo's DS, having such a controlling and overbearing parent, he might really enjoy sport or scouts. What happens if he meets a lovely young woman from the wrong gene pool?"

Ah, so you have read the Marie Stopes story?

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:25

You know ladies ( women) I feel really so sorry that you are all so determined to embrace difference cultural, racial and educational except when it comes down to it, you cannot because you have to target my choices because they are not yours. What happened to all that multi cultural embracing the difference attiude here then?

Each to his ( or her) own.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:25

I am on galley duty. I have to go.

EvilTwins · 02/12/2012 17:29

I don't understand why you are so set on turning your DS into a mini you, Ronaldo. No sport? Why?

What a shame to limit a child to only the things that the parent enjoys. When my girls were younger, they had a friend whose mother wouldn't allow her DD to try things she had been no good at, on the grounds that the DD probably wouldn't be any good either and it would knock her confidence. I always feel very sad for children whose parents won't let them try things out for themselves.

wigglybeezer · 02/12/2012 17:33

I wouldn't 't say I 'm really that embracing of difference, I am willing to say that it is better to be well - educated than not, I am just not prepared to say that my children are likely to catch under - achievement by sitting on the same bus as " working class " children.

Is it a clue that you mention Marie Stopes, well known to be a proponent of eugenics?

IfNotNowThenWhen · 02/12/2012 17:35

We don't live in a grammar school area, and ds goes to an OK primary, but if I had the money I would pay for a maths tutor for him because he is getting behind already, and struggling to understand.
I am helping him as much as I can, but I am worried he will develop a "block" about maths, and I really don't want that; not because of getting into any school (he will go to the local comp) but because I think understanding maths is so important.
I would hate it if I wasn't "allowed" to do this, as I dont think the school have the resources or time to help him properly.

Original poster
breadandbutterfly · 02/12/2012 17:40

IfNotNow - your view is certainly the mainstream among Daily Mail readers not a criticism, BTW - I am one too) - as the comments were strongly against debarring assistance from tutors. The point of the changes, though, is not to ban tutors as such, but to introduce new 11+ tests which would not be tutorable for (supposedly). So your mats tutoring could continue. Just it wouldn't give your ds an advantage as such in the 11= exam if he sat it, compared to children whose parents couldn't afford tutors - which seems fair.

OP posts:
wigglybeezer · 02/12/2012 17:42

It's interesting that Ronaldo keeps mentioning Canada. Canada comes out much higher ( than the UK ) in all the health, well being,happiness etc. indexes that are published, alongside all the other countries that are more equal than us. If he is really interested in his DS being happy he should move back there and cease being such a frightful snob.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:45

I don't understand why you are so set on turning your DS into a mini you, Ronaldo. No sport? Why?

Mainly because
a) he shows little or no interest in it ( although he does like dance) and
b) he is a pianist and musician and he needs to protect his hands ( DW says).

EvilTwins · 02/12/2012 17:46

Oh FFS. He is SIX.

Arisbottle · 02/12/2012 17:48

On the contrary Ronaldo, I adore your answers. As I said the character you have created has kept me entertained on what could have been a rather dark lonely day.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:49

Is it a clue that you mention Marie Stopes, well known to be a proponent of eugenics?

Nothing to do with me. Someone else accused me back handedly of being a eugenicist ( saying what would happen if my DS chose someone from the wrong gene pool). I hit back with the stopes comment. I think the person who made the gene comment was a eugenicist

Spockster · 02/12/2012 17:49

For someone so dismissive of the other posters on here, Ronaldo has spent a rather disproportionate amount of his Sunday communicating with mumsnetters!
Meanwhile I, on the other hand, have been engaged in many upper middle class, professional-at-play type of activities with my DC, involving education and yet fun; classics, history, literature... We had a great time. How smug we feel! Back to our Director-level jobs and state primaries tomorrow, to tell the oiks all about how clever yet fun we are Grin

Arisbottle · 02/12/2012 17:51

To be fair to Ronaldo I have been on here most of the afternoon.

Sometimes I post on here whilst pretending to watch my children at a club.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:53

It's interesting that Ronaldo keeps mentioning Canada. Canada comes out much higher ( than the UK ) in all the health, well being,happiness etc. indexes that are published, alongside all the other countries that are more equal than us. If he is really interested in his DS being happy he should move back there and cease being such a frightful snob

Actually wiggly I have said it is my intention to go to Canada beforemy DS reaches Secondary school age. At the moment it is not practical - mainly because I cannot. I cannot get a work visa ( too old) and cannot retire ( too young) We spend as much time there as is feasible.

So right now we are biding time. We have a school selected in Canada and DS has his name on the admissions list. (not a public/state one though). A good school.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 02/12/2012 17:54

Oh, OK breadandbutterfly. I dont agree with the 11 plus at all anyway, so I think they should get rid of that everywhere.
I do think that ds has, I suppose, an unfair advantage over some children, in that I care a lot about his education, and also in that he is an only (so far) and so a tutor would be cheaper than if I had 3.
However, as a lone parent who has always been skint, I feel a bit like he has already been disadvantaged in many ways, so i could live with myself if I scrimped to get him through maths!

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 17:59

I have been heremostof the afternoon too arisbottle. I am not pretending to be anything . I am hiding in my den ( study) . I have put the supper on and thats me done for now.

I am not dismissive of anyone. However it seems from here that many posters would like to dismiss me ( are my views so uncomfortable to you?) .

Is it any wonder when you call me names ( not you personally necessarily arisbottle) , you make rude comments about my DS, you say you hope your your DC wont have to go to school with him ( because of whatever reason - intelligernce, my views as a parent, our failure to share your cultural values etc) I would rather not send my DS to a school where your comments here may become a reality for him?

He doesnt need to be called names and bullied for being different or having parents who are different. Not at his age.

Cahoootz · 02/12/2012 17:59

I seriously couldn't be arsed didn't read all the posts. Sorry.

My view is that Grammar Schools should be phased out and DC's should go to the closest Comprehensive. The school catchment areas should be planned to include as much as a mix of DC's as possible. All schools should then provide suitable education for DC's of all abilities. With academic DC's being treated with as much importance as all other DC's.

It really is that simple isn't it?

Arisbottle · 02/12/2012 18:02

I think it is that simple Cahootz. I can't see why being clever means that you need a separate building.

EvilTwins · 02/12/2012 18:02

I agree with Cahootz.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 18:04

Most of you would like tosay I am experimenting with my DS's education but in fact it is the stateeducation system that is the experiment It has been ever since the end of ww2 when the state schooling system was implimented in essentially its current form (especially grammar schools and later comprehensive schools).

They seem to have both clearly failed by all evidence.

I am giving my DS a good old fashioned , tried and tested education by comparison.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 18:08

The school catchment areas should be planned to include as much as a mix of DC's as possible

I would agree with much of what you say except for the above. Firstly social mix invariably reduces to the lowest common denominator.
Secondly there will be those , like myself who will seek an opt out -and get it because we do not like social mix and thirdly all you will end up with in effect is a school where social differentiation takes place within the setting system rather than the schools themselves. Lower sets will be occupied by those who do not have social and educational advantage.

Thats more or less what happens now.