So Eton, everything I expected and more

[JoanBias]

My DS is at a private school, so I have experience of private schooling, but my word Eton was like another world.

Not just the school, but the people there.

There was one prep school being shown around, all in tweed jackets, and to a boy the spitting image of Draco Malfoy (well there was one Chinese boy, but otherwise....).

One of the mothers doing the tour was not quite right in some respect, I'm not sure how but something wasn't wired up correctly or something. She was immacuately dressed, 6-inch heels (pretty daft considering the confirmation letter warns about having a long walk), but she was just bizarre. The admissions tutor said 'we have a waiting list of 80 boys and typically 35% of these will make it through', and she asked afterwards 'so 80% of the boys from the waiting list make it through?', and it was then explained again, but you could kind of hear the cogs going round and she clearly didn't get it. She had asked several other similar questions; e.g., it was explained that some Houses are catering and others go to a central cafeteria, so she then asked 'so they all eat in the cafeteria'? She pointed at the Fives Court and asked me 'what do they play here?' I said 'Fives' 'Is it squash?', she said. 'No, Eton Fives.' 'So is it squash?' It seemed as if this woman had had the benefit of the 'Finishing School for the Terminally Dim', because she was otherwise every inch the presentable upper middle-class wife.

Another family had a son who looked the prototypical pre-Etonian, and sure enough Daddy spent the tour braying on about his House when he had been there.

The facilities were extremely impressive, although they didn't bother to show us any of the academic parts, and basically the impression was 'if your son is incredibly pushy and self-motivated, send him here and we will teach him to be entitled'. They said 'every year we reject about a third of the highest performers on the test', essentially because they aren't pushy enough. (The House Mistresses seemed quite nice though.)

Fantastic training for future managing directors and whatever, but not for us.....

Well worth it to sign up for a tour, very illuminating. They take about 100 a day from what I can see, so obligation at all....

Bubblenut and the dodgy disturbing toy one...

Well done, Badlad, and thank you for that post.

If we could have something similar from Winchester, Harrow etc etc that would be most useful

just re BadLad's mixing point:

While there are obviously many old Etonians who are not musicians (see below), most of the ones I've met have been driven and dedicated enough to be plausibly concentrating harder on the task at hand than on mixing with people they don't know - i.e. just like most of the well-educated 18 year olds I've ever met; but everyone's heard of Eton, and the confident, open, politely forthcoming manners that are current there do tend to make people highly visible... so I can see where the criticism arises, even though it may not be fair.

Musical example that may translate into other areas of life:

notanotter I've no idea if your son is at uni at the place with the traditionally- highest concentration of old etonians (King's) - them not mixing is a frequent criticism there; but when I was there, it had more to do with most of the highly visible old etonians being choral scholars who spent 99% of their lives in rehearsals, services, concerts or recording sessions or on tour overseas. Also possibly because most of them had been living that particularly busy life since the age of 8 in one or other choral foundation, so didn't see anything unusual in being too busy to mix; or in their choice of secondary school, which made complete sense since that particular musical path doesn't exist in very many places other than Eton or Winchester. The non-musical geeks (who spent similar amounts of time in the lab it has to be said) frequently voiced their resentment of those old etonians who didn't "fit in" because of apparently being Bullingdonesque wannabe superstars (I should know, I was usually in the lab too in those days).... but what I observed was that the choral scholars worked incredibly hard and were mostly exceptionally professional, except for the occasional egotistical jock.

The "pushy parenting" observations from the OP interested me - I would see it as teaching the kids to be adequately prepared for a life that demands clear-headed hard work and competitive advantage of the UCAS-for-10-y-o kind... Kids of course learn differently and at different rates, so can of course completely subvert tiger parenting by failing to perform in front of the parents. How you transmit excellent preparedness while not engendering doormats or rebellions, I have absolutely no idea...

Sounds a very sensible post BadLad.
I would have thought that one of the reasons for sending to Eton was to get them to mix well.
I have always found, in later life, that those who went to boarding school generally mix well and are not remotely bothered (or interested) in which school other people went to.

Marking place to read later

< nosey >

Thank you badlad. For me the issue with parental failure to be objective is that some DC who are not thriving have to remain. The parents have so bought in to the very idea of Eton that they cannot countenence their own DC being less than ecstatcic. The fact that two of the Eton parents on this thread have their nicknames as homage to the school makes me think there is too much invested in it. And that is quite typical of Eton parents in my experience.

I suppose it depends what you mean by not thriving. If I had looked as if I wasn't going to do very well academically, then my parents would have taken me out of the place, on the grounds that there was no point paying all that money if I wasn't going to take the place seriously.

In the end I did well in GCSEs and A'Levels, although I was ranked in the middle in the school exams. I was certainly nowhere near the 7 As at A'level that one boy managed. He wasn't a King's Scholar - in fact he wasn't even an Oppidan Scholar (that's a scholar who isn't in the College house). His first choice of university rejected him at first, although they quickly had a rethink when he made the news because of his A'level results. No A* grades in those days.

Had I been unhappy, then again, I think my parents would have put me in another school. It would have depended why I was unhappy - if possible, they would have tried to sort the problem first, but if couldn't, then I am sure they wouldn't have made me stay there.

But as there was no problem, they wanted me to enthuse whenever I was asked "What's it like?" and not just say "Actually it's quite hard work - there's lots of difficult studying," which was my initial impression. I suppose this is because of people like the OP in this thread, who have made up their minds about the place and certainly won't be changing their opinion but will gleefully leap on anything that they feel vindicates it, even if it is nothing more unusual than a twelve-year old having a large appetite for biscuits.

Yes presumably you want that £160k investment to seem worthwhile.

Although few seem to mind withdrawing their children from No Name Prep school, which might still be costing a significant amount of money.

For me it's a tricky think if the £160k is worth it. I've made OEs are so fabulously entitled and they walk into senior managerial positions pretty much oozing that Eton vibe, and it does seem that it's paid off really. But as I've said I think you need to be in that way in the first place, it's a sort of casting rather than a moulding process I would say.

Exceptional music provision/teaching so good for that too, although you do wonder if the DCs are doing music as a way to get into Eton, or if Eton is there to teach them music.

His first choice of university rejected him at first, although they quickly had a rethink when he made the news because of his A'level results.

Which uni was that?

I'm very at people trying to embarrass Oxbridge on the basis of their A Level results and alleging discrimination either because they are state or private students.

I suppose this is because of people like the OP in this thread, who have made up their minds about the place and certainly won't be changing their opinion but will gleefully leap on anything that they feel vindicates it, even if it is nothing more unusual than a twelve-year old having a large appetite for biscuits.

They would be 10-year-olds, or slightly younger, looking round. Not many schools have twelve year olds on open days.

You have to find the school to fit the child and not make the child fit the school that you like.
My impression (with only a superficial tour) was that it was an excellent school but even if I had pots of money I wouldn't have sent my DSs there-it wasn't the school for them and I could use the money to find ones that did fit.

I agree with that, exoticfruits.

If you'll excuse the personal horn-blowing, I could have gone to Harrow, as I took the scholarship exam there the February before I took Common Entrance. I didn't get a scholarship, but I was offered an unconditional place, and was tempted, largely because I could have just coasted through school until July. But for whatever reason, I just didn't like the place. I didn't much like the house I was in - even if only for a few days - disliked the housemaster at first sight, was put off the place by having to sleep in the makeshift sick room, and thought some of the ways they were testing me were odd. There was a bowl of money in the room, presumably to see if I would pinch any of it.

My parents were aghast, and so were my prep school - the latter in particular were insistent I accept the offer. But my parents supported me.

Most schools inevitably will have a mixture of "types" but within not very clearly defined parameters.
Lets be logical about this. At very selective schools there are likely to be many pushy parents this is inevitable if you pretty cool about examinations results university entrance you would be unlikely to send Jonty to a very selective school. Some schools are very liberal again you and most likely your DC are going to feel more comfortable in a liberal school if you are liberal. If you are a screaming snob/social climber then find a school that suits you. Ultimately schools like Eton with its awesome worldwide reputation are going to attract social climbers and screaming snobs and this inevitably will reflect in some of the children but not all. Whereas small country boarding school in the back of the beyond are likely to mainly be stuffed with wealthy farmers. Look at the parents at your prep listen to their choices of schools; that parent who who never stops talking about cricket and his son prowess on the crease is likely to choose a school where cricket is big so it many not be suitable for your DS if he thinks that cricket is the worse game ever invented and you think the idea of watching the 5ths play appalling cricket for five hours on a Saturday afternoon is hell. If you've got lots of mink coat wearing diamond dripping Bently driving parents all going on about the same school and your comfortable in gum boots its just possible their choice of school is not right for you and your DC.

One way to get a feel for a school is to read its termly calendar or even go on its website and look at the news bit. Its quite enlightening. If your want sporty school look at the sporting fixtures if its rugby right down to the colts F and ex England rugby players as coaches it means your DS is likely to be standing n the rugby pitch 5 days a week come hell or high water. If no rugby is ever mentioned it means they don't play it not that they've forgotten to publicise it! If theres two or three music concerts a week then music is important ditto plays although two a three a week is probably too many unless you hope your DC is going to be the Kenneth Brannagh in which case you might be delighted but maybe four or five productions a term. Those with a couple of lectures a week from highly regarded university professors are likely to more intellectual/academic than those whose hold regular BBQ's every week! Its always worth asking about policies on alcohol/smoking/contraception/health education surrounding sexually transmitted diseases etc. look around the school some have information sheets poster clearly displayed others dont IME the more liberal the school the more openly these things are discussed, also going out of school policy in their free time are restrictions placed on children do they have to wear uniform etc again a reflection of how liberal or not they are. It doesn't matter if your liberal or not and by default your DC but life is going to be easier for all of you if you and the school share similar views. Uniform is of course another issue. Some schools insist their pupils go home in their uniform others don't, some insist they wear their uniform when they go out to the local shops others don't, some parents and children think this is petty others love it. Ditto the type of uniform if you think in the ideal world then uniform should be banned then Eton/Christs is not the place for you, if you love traditional uniform and the whole idea of it (and I am reliably informed that some people do) then don't choose a school where where the uniform policy is not strongly enforce or there is no uniform at all. Some schools randomly screen all their children for drugs, breathalize 6th formers after they've been out some may see this as over kill others think its wonderful if it matters ask.
So kerrygrey Winchester has always had a history of being very academic the head frequently describes his school as full geeks eggheads etc and is proud of it. Prep school heads also generally make similar comments so it almost becomes self selecting parents who want this kind a school send their DS's there. It has a reputation for not being sporty at all not quite true but sport is optional after the 2nd year so not really suitable for sports nuts, Tatler once said "not suitable for interfering parents" full boarding schools in general are probably unsuited for interfering parents and I think Winchester takes its the fact thats its in loco parentis very carefully the boys are expected to turn to the school first of they have a problem so again I think this is true and you would be unhappy and drive the school up the wall if you were the sort of parents who wanted constant feed back and needed to be in control all the time.
It is inevitable as your DC goes through his school life that some little blip is going to occur when it does what could be resolvable may become much harder or even impossible to resolve if you have lots of other little niggles. Also IME children quickly pick up on our views about their schools if we're negative they become negative and obviously if were positive generally they'll feel the same so it is important that you are as fully signed up to the schools ethos as possible.
Many thanks for the concerned posting about the flood this morning the water has dropped back by almost 2 feet we live to see another day.

I should imagine Eton provides an incredibly intense experience for the children who go there - lots going on of a very high quality and an expectation that they make the most of it. I can see why it inspires such loyalty on the one hand and hatred on the other. In a way, that is my problem with it: such an intense experience is bound to lead to particularly strong feelings. Translate this into life after school and it's hard to see people not being drawn to others who have had the same, intense experience. The result can be lots of people from similar backgrounds with their hands on the reins of power, with little understanding of the lower intensity lives of the people around them...

rabbitstew - it doesn't really do that. Are you getting fanatical loyalty to the place from my posts?

Most OE's that I keep in touch with are rather indifferent to the place.

I don't live in the UK anymore, and when I hear people in this country saying something that is factually wrong about the country, I'll usually try to correct whatever they're saying, whether they are overly critical or hopeless Anglophiles.

I do the same about Eton.

I'm getting intensity from your posts, BadLad! I wouldn't have so much to describe about my secondary school as you do about yours. You make Eton sound like a very BIG experience, even if not a wholly fantastic one.

On the mixing that is not my experience. My daughter had friends at university from Eton (they still are friends) and I have no recollection at all that they only mixed with other boys from Eton.

I had lunch once with a friend who was weighing up pros and cons of sending his older son to Eton which we talked through. He had a slight concern it might be held against the boy later compared with some other schools. They decided not and he's done fine there.

However obviously I repeat my point that a lot of children prefer to live with their parents and siblings and many are harmed by the separation and plenty of boarding schools are not academically selective and children can obtain worse results than some day selective private schools.If you like a lot of time alone without any structure which I think our family or some of us is a bit like then there are downsides of boarding school. If you want a lot of hours looking into space which is not wrong - it's just different, there is not always so much scope for that. If you want one day to eat at 6 and another at 10pm it is harder at boarding school. In some it is harder to resist peer pressure. I am not saying my older 3 who have all graduated now don't smoke or take drugs because they went to day schools (NLC, Habs etc) but I haev been at a boarding school where the older boys were allowed out before pudding for a smoke. Now in our house and amongst people we know no one smokes ever so you might find you are presented with a culture where certain things that are not done at home are done and as you have less influence as a parent if you are not living with your teenagers every day I do suspect it is harder to show your own example to them.

And comparing my experience at state school with my experience at Oxford, the intensity of lots going on and a short period of time in which to experience it does have an effect on you - which, if you've had that all your life, including at school, I doubt you'd notice quite so much, because it's really just more of the same.

I have nothing to compare it to, although I did spend a week on exchange at a comprehensive school in Slough.

But it inspires neither great loyalty nor hatred.

What I find most interesting about it is the amount of interest in it from the outside, like this thread, and the numerous tourists who stop the boys and take photos of them. And that did lead to more interest in my progress from relatives and friends of my parents than there might otherwise have been, I suppose.

It's a bit like a member of the Royal Family commenting that it is most interesting, the amount of interest they get from the outside... If you are going to steep yourselves in tradition in addition to being hugely wealthy, you are going to attract those interested in how power, wealth and status are gained and retained and which of those are most personally beneficial.

It shouldn't really a surprise. There's lots of interest in Oxford and Cambridge too. These at least do not select on the ability to afford £32k/year fees, so you've got a double whammy - elitism and privilege.

I never thought about it like that, perhaps because I usually try not to encourage people automatically associating the Royal Family with Eton.

But anyway, that is one of my most enduring memories of the place - the extreme interest in it, which, when I was younger puzzled me quite a lot.

If you dont mind me asking, BadLad, do you now work with people who were privately educated,at Eton or otherwise.
Or are you say,in management, and you were helped to get there because of your Eton background.

Hmm, they can't have done a very good job teaching you to be humble about Eton, if you found it so puzzling as a boy that people were very interested in one of the world's richest, oldest, best-equipped schools, that educates some of the richest, best-known people in the world.

Very strange - Yesterday I noted Xenia had made a grammatical error in one of her posts. Today I find it's been corrected but post otherwise unchanged? How? I thought it was impossible to edit posts here? Am I mistaken?

Power, wealth and status do not bring freedom, that's for certain - with that combination of assets, you will always attract attention and will find it very difficult to give them up in order to avoid it, particularly since you will most likely have to give up all three or none at all.