Children arrive at school incapable of learning

[Brycie]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222176/Chaotic-homes-creating-children-incapable-learning-says-Gove-Teachers-report-year-olds-nappies-speak-sentences.html I wonder what people think of this. Is this child abuse?

What kind of intervention can be offered? On a school thread the other day one poster was talking about how long it can take to teach a child to ask to be excused for the toilet. It seems nuts not to start intervention earlier. Can these children in danger be identified for special programmes from say age 2? How can a programme be created which "discriminates" against children from better organised families to prevent the Surestart problem (ie being overtaken by the enthusiastic parents who don't really need it as much). There must be lots of social workers here who have an opinion but other people too.

You know, this thread is rather starting to resemble people rubbing their hands gleefully together and it's really distasteful.

I truly detest seeing the comments lumping everyone on benefits together as a shifty group of ne'er do wells. I know quite a few people getting some level of benefits that are hard working people, that put their children first, that do everything they can to make their money go as far as it can, as well as making sure their children's education is a priority. Most are on a fairly low wage, some are either unemployed or disabled. Not everyone's reasons for being on benefits is the same... categorising them as a group is unreasonable.

I hate to see children going to preschool/nursery younger and younger. I don't like the prevailing feeling I've gotten from numerous people that if you don't put your child in preschool/play group that you're a rubbish parent and they won't be ready for reception.

Absolutely no one on this thread has done that triggles.

I work in reception in an outstanding school with a v small catchment in a good borough. Even in this setting I have some children who are unable to speak, communicate or ask for things and it's nearly November. The table manners are non existent -they have food running down their faces and when I ask them to get a tissue and wipe it off they look at me like they have truly never been asked to do this. They pick up big chunks of meat in their hands and chew on them and don't understand how this affects others around them. Like babies really. I was v surprised to find such a high number with these difficulties.
One child in particular raises real concerns for us. She is almost mute and very de- sensitised. Her eyes are glassy and blank. She doesnt really participate in anything but does smile at playtime with others. She is ravenous at meal times. Her parents didn't seem overly bothered when it was raised at last PE. I wonder what I can do for her to help without back up from some other avenue. Even now I feel some things are too late for some of these children.

Scarah what you describe with the little girl seems like an obvious case for the SENCO to get involved with...maybe there's a developmental issue?

'I work with children. They do have developmental delays. I have yet to meet a child whose delays are caused by their parents.'

Thank you MrsD

'I am already seeing very young children with specific needs going into enthusiastic settings. I am then seeing children not getting the support they need because the staff are not trained to work with children with SN.'

Thank you again MrsD

Seriously?? In reception??!?

So many of you are asking 'what can be done?' Presumably about the wrath of neglected poor raw material coming into our schools now from hopeless families.

Are we all too stupid now to see what to me is a frigging obvious piece of government propaganda keeping the population soft for more cuts to the vulnerable.

Nothing will be 'done' except a 'policy document' or 'guidelines' that will be very heavily publicised for a problem that doesn't actually exist.

At the same time we can all feel warm about those troublesome families having their rights, autonomy, resources, votes, systematically removed.

'I am also considering the point already made that many of these DC have 'undiagnosed SN' and wondering how much of the 'SN' has been caused by the rubbish, neglectful parenting'

See!

I work with primary aged children as an SEN advisor. I have not read the whole thread as I did not want to prejudice my opinion.

I believe that where I work the main issues around young children's developmental issues are caused by:

• parental inadequacies
• inability of schools to cope with the developmental level at which children enter school
• lack of money to provide sufficient support at an early age

Having read a pp's response regarding having not yet met a child whose parents have cased their delays - lucky you. I see them on a daily basis.

Catrin, how do you KNOW their parents have caused their SEN?

Because I do home support in conjunction with school support.

I work with children with speech delays who are still using a dummy, a bottle at 5. Children who are never spoken to. Children who have no toys and no stimulation. When I do a home visit, the TV is not turned off and the children are 2 inches from it. Reception age children who are still spoon fed purees. Children who are still in pushchairs to and from school at 5. 5 year olds who do not know what their own name is because no one says it at home. Ever.

These are not Special Educational Needs; as I said, these are issues around developmental delays. And they are caused by poor parenting.

I read the Mr Gove's comments with interest. My son is autistic with ADHD and dyspraxia. The problems were evident by the time he was four.

He also started school unable to learn
He ate messily (and still does now) although using a cloth to wipe his face IS getting easier. He still prefers to use his fingers.
He was not in nappies though.

I think some of the problems will be early signs of autism, dyspraxia etc
Some will be as the result of poor parenting as Mr Gove says.
The important thing is not to lump all the children with these issues together and dismiss it as poor parenting.

Someone a few posts back suggested that parents would neglect their kids, just to get free childcare from age 2.

My youngest has moderate to severe autism. At 2, he was completely non-verbal, incredibly passive and only just walking and very unsteady on his feet. We live in one of the original 2 year pilot areas and with perfect timing, 11 2 year sessions (half days) were given funding at the local school. Uptake was voluntary. He ended up with 5 of those 11 places because people weren't exactly rushing forward to go through a CAF for free childcare.

Starlight - there's much in this thread that makes me take a deep breath.

And never mind the tabloid spin, the report i read yesterday was describing these children as raw materials for secondary schools. Yes, so much care and concern being expressed for these children that they're being labelled as commodities.

And the "research" that the whole policy push is based on isn't research really, so didn't need to observe the governments own rules about ethics and representative samples. It was just a dipstick guv, honest. Just enough of a dipstick to add poorly substantiated fuel to the views about undiagnosed SN being a result of poor parenting.

Starlight nobody is making out that the poorer families need to be punished! People have suggested they need help!

My experience of primary school SEN advisors is that they don't know anything about SEN issues at all and couldn't spot the wood for the trees if the trees hit them in the face.

Why thank you for that. And your huge experience make you able to comment?

Yes, poor people need help. So why are they systematically having their resources and rights cut off?

Why are we all suggesting draconian measures to impose certain values onto them and their children but taking away their freedom and choices which will ultimately put enough strain on them that they fall apart and justify those draconian measures?

Not an especially hard question to answer that.

Well your experience seems to be very black and white Catrin - you are most welcome by the way.

I beg to differ wassup, the SENCO in my DS's school have been amazingly supportive. They were the first people to notice that he could not read facial expressions which is what led my thoughts towards autism or Aspergers. They have been absolutely brilliant with him and very supportive to me.

Catrin, I dare say you could point to a number of chaotic families and homes but to extend that to the CAUSE of an SEN is presumptuous and dangerous.

The toddlers in the tea shop can't see that if they take the rug from under the feet out of the poor feckless, drug addicted, work shy parents that their precious welfare bill will rise not fall from the cost of taking all the poor badly parented children into care.

My experience is based on just that - experience.
I have taught for over 15 years, been a Senco in both mainstream and special schools, am an SEN advisor and am also a mum to a statemented child. Clearly though, you are the one with all the knowledge.

Good for you Jake but that wasn't my point.

I would appreciate it, Starlight if you read my post correctly - I said, quite clearly
"the main issues around young children's developmental issues are caused by..."

that, is not the same, as saying they have SEN.

But how is my point any different?