Children arrive at school incapable of learning

[Brycie]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222176/Chaotic-homes-creating-children-incapable-learning-says-Gove-Teachers-report-year-olds-nappies-speak-sentences.html I wonder what people think of this. Is this child abuse?

What kind of intervention can be offered? On a school thread the other day one poster was talking about how long it can take to teach a child to ask to be excused for the toilet. It seems nuts not to start intervention earlier. Can these children in danger be identified for special programmes from say age 2? How can a programme be created which "discriminates" against children from better organised families to prevent the Surestart problem (ie being overtaken by the enthusiastic parents who don't really need it as much). There must be lots of social workers here who have an opinion but other people too.

and i liked working in a shop, particularly at christmas :)

hours sucked though.

retail has a very strong tradition of bottom-up recruitment too. most of the managers would tell you about starting out as shop boys....

word i'm not sure how many people are that fulfilled in their job.

looking at the numbers that want to be chefs/bakers who do actually pretty amzing jobs ....

Frankly, the skill set you need for a decent job in retail is actually quite high - you need to understand a wide range of complex products, to adapt your sales pitch to your customer. You need a much greater skill set than if you were to work in a purely manual job (leaf sweeping, dog shit clearing sort).

MrsDeVere what is most sad, in my opinion is that ultimately these children do not get the chance to reach their potential-be it academic or practical.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with manual labour, working in a shop or serving chips in a chippy. An honest day's graft is an honest day's graft as far as I'm concerned.

I can introduce you to a young man who is absolutely one of those children who will end up under-fulfilled in his twenties due to a one sided parental lack of ooomf as regards the importance of education. He's lovely, well mannered and everyone likes him-is that going to pay his mortgage and feed his kids in years to come though? No it flippin isn't and it's a crying shame.

One child being left on the shelf in this manner is too many.
Something has to change-and not just so more of my used-to-be-working-class doctor/teacher friends and lawyer cousins have less to do.

And you need to look nice, too...

IME, shop work requires basic level skills.

manual handling
literacy (you need to be able to read what it says on the till/ Shelf edge label)
basic courtesy (though there is the night shift for people that really can't stand customers)
reliability (turning up on time and not going sick are fairly major)

But MrsDeVere if the parents don't think that academics are that important then surely it's the schools job to show children that there are other options out there.

Just because your parents are happy working in shops, plumbing etc. (not that there's anything wrong) doesn't mean you are going to be, you might have completely different talents and interests. WC kids have got just as much right to want to be doctors/lawyers/lecturers as the children of the middle class.

However hard everyone works to increase the vocabularly of their 0-3-year olds and make everyone more successful academically, we still need people to work in shops. And there is still a lot of pathetic snobbery about it. Yes, it is badly paid, but not because it is a skill-free, worthless occupation that only someone with a limited IQ should indulge in.

no definitive answer.but family work,community staff,ft nursery places for kids
educational and life skills for parents but then how does one motivate participants
and of course it's all costly,and people probably reticent to pay via taxation

You all seem to be assuming all these children are from the same social/economic background

I can well believe this article.

I work in reception in an inner city primary school. In our reception 3 classes of 30 children our Free School Meals rate is roughly 80%. There is a massive issue with money and education, or rather the lack of it with the parents.

All bar 2 of the children in my class of 30 this year have English as an additional language. Most of the children came to us this year either saying nothing, or still at the 1 word answers stage.

Its very very common for children to come to us with toiletting issues. You can guarantee that at least 1 child will come into reception (aged 4) still in nappies 'because its the schools job to get my child out of nappies'. Quite a few more parents try to hide it and put their child in pullups hoping we wont notice. We do. The FIRST thing I teach the girls (a male teacher + a TA does the same with the boys) when they come into class is how to go to the toilet. I use a puppet for this and include how to pull trousers/knickers up and down and how to get on/off the toilet themselves.

Teaching the children the phrase 'help me please' is also pretty much at the top of the list of things to do. Otherwise they won't ask for help when its needed and stand there crying/screaming/grunting.

Mealtimes, similar story. Children are either fed by their parents or they use their hands. Its easy to spot the ones who have no idea what a knife/fork.plate/cup is as they will just sit there passively and expect you to do it for them. And its often hit and miss if they will eat their dinners as they have absolutely no idea what those funny green round things are infront of them. Diinner to our children comes from the local kebab shop- their child's chicken+chips+drink meal costs £1.

I've already been making the unsuitable packed lunch calls to our parents. Cold, half eaten Macdonalds. Check. Chocolate bar+crisps+fizzy drink. Check

Our parents don't speak English, can't read or write in either their home languages or English, don't have much money, often have large families- 5+ children is normal. The school record is 14 children from one family all in the school. They have housing issues, the children don't have toys/games in the house

And yet the coalition government has just slashed funding from the multi-agency partnership who were doing quite frankly amazing work with some of our most vulnerable families. It doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's just the parents, but I think the parents are probably the most important factor in most cases and so should be the main focus that services should try to target.

I don't have the answers but I do know that there has got to be a system in place whereby teachers can 'flag up' issues at a level beyond the parent(s) and the Head of the school. That way an NRP or Grandmother/Aunt/Uncle who's screaming from the sidelines (and there are some out there) has somewhere to go other than round and round in ever decreasing circles or quietly insane.

There are rules about starving children and recently obesity has been highlighted but reading and writing seems to have been to all intent and purposes ignored to date as an issue

I don't think it's an issue of broken families or financially poor parents; more an issue of presenteeism of said parent. So even if you are a lone parent, or a grandparent taking care of your children's children, it's about the consistency, the routine of mealtimes, bedtimes, etc, the availability of decent food and attention that matters. Of course, instilling discipline too.

I think some of the earlier suggestions are draconian sounding (taking kids away, mum and child units, hints of sterilization, removing the right to a flat if you are 16, pregnant and single etc) but may work....

I'm not a journo! (thanks wordfactory!)

I've only got to the second page but just wanted to agree with this from Samsmilaidh:

"I think that one thing that would improve early years education in this country would be - state nursery places available for all children... State/Sure Start nurseries are well resourced and have many graduate and highly qualified staff, plus access to speech and language therapists and educational psychologists etc. I would extend free nursery places 3-6 year olds (from 2 years for deprived families) and start formal schooling from what is now Year 2."

I agree with this but can't see how it's affordable for all. Is it politically possible to offer only to children who "fail" (shorthand) a two year check? Would that lead to parents not bothering at all in the hope of getting free childcare after the age of two?

I don't think it matters where the problem comes from or the fact that it's not new. I agree with Litten that some of it is brought into being by lopsided welfare provision which is causing some of hte problems it's supposed to prevent.

If you say "it's middle class families too" or "this has been going on forever" it's slightly irrelevant as neither mean it doesn't have to be dealt with. It's only relevant if different approaches would be needed for say - middle class parents. That's pragmatically and politically almost impossible!

Plus I think there's a risk that "feeling sorry" for the parents mean the children are fatally let down.

Re: where the biggest problem is. I don't supposed statistics are produced. I have assumed it's mainly a problem of low income families, even very low income familes.

good eyfs provision should flag the children that are, for whatever reason, falling short and the increase of funding to 2 year olds, along with 2 year old check, should help

I think the article itself is sad, Triggles, desperately so. The fact of it happening is sadder than anything we can say about it.

a 2 year check IS coming - for all children (new EYFS)

oh my golly gosh

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9631820/Benefits-encourage-problem-families-says-Iain-Duncan-Smith.html IDS came out and said it]]

People are going to be cross. Hasn't Frank Field said this before though?

IDS came out and said it

but not twice

Frank Field was told to go away and think the unthinkable...but when he did he was told to shut the fuck up...