Unqualified teachers

[morethanpotatoprints]

Who, apart from some qualified teachers are really mad about this. I do think there seems to be a lot of sensationalist reporting going on in the press.
I heard an advert on the radio today for unqualified teachers posts and apparentely they need a degree to be able to teach and in any subject. How is this any different than today with people with degrees in Textiles teaching in primary schools.
However, according to some QTs on here children will suffer as a consequence and anybody is allowed to teach without so much as a GCSE let alone a degree

Sorry there are 5 of these threads and they are all running along the same theme with the same results.

I agree with mrz and if you get back into a mainstream school, don't teach subjects you don't feel up to it. I'm sure your specialism covers loads of other subjects.

There are subjects I wouldn't go near simply because I would endanger students' chances of failing their exams. Covering a few lessons is different, but being expected to prepare, plan, teach and assess in a subject I have no knowledge or confidence in, absolutley not.

Qualified teacher, the skills were different in high school ks3 than F.E but as I stated I had no problem with the change in skills, it was teaching subjects at a higher level than I had myself which was wrong.

My dd will do IGCSE's or O level or whatever is available at the time , in which subjects she chooses. We are hoping for the first in y8/9. First A level at 14 (this is because she is working at level 8) at the moment in this subject. (Primary school assessment).

BoneyBack some subjects aren't offered at degree level, so the highest level offered in that subject be it level 4/5 at H.E, or another award, was my answer. Hardly lack of knowledge there. I also said I would expect a degree in an academic subject for Primary teachers. At ks3 I would expect a teacher to have a degree in their own subject, they teach. Or as above the highest qual offered in that subject. I think that is plain speaking.

MTTP, can you confirm are you proposing to home teach your child and put your child forward for GSCEs, A/Ls etc independently?

Flexybex. If QTS was fair and everybody teaching had them then I have no problem. However, I don't see it as necessary as clearly teachers are managing quite well without them. Now subject knowledge is quite different, it is nearly impossible to teach without this.

morethan I thought level 8 was equivalent to an A grade at GCSE! That school can't have been that bad!

morethanpotatoprints surely you can't base national policy on the fact that you have worked for some unscrupulous schools who are flouting the law and you colluded

Qualified teacher.
Yes we are. There are several reasons for this however, including a poor nc, poor teaching and poor classroom environment. Also, we have gained a new philosophy on teaching and learning.
We might go for a specialist/ Private ed for secondary yet depending on what she decides at the time.
I am against paying for a privilaged education and can't afford private fees so if she does want this we will have awards, bursaries, scholarships etc.

FB, Level 6, is approximately Grade C, Level 8 approximately Grade B, between 8-10 A/A*.

A primary child at Level 8 is G&T and should really be preparing to get into a top Grammar school and is also a suitable candidate for scholarships to independent schools. I know of schools with RIGID catchment areas that take on exceptionally bright kids outside of the catchment.

MTPP

So if I have a level 5 in carpentry I should also be able to teach metalwork and plastics?
Or if I had a level 5 in smithying I can teach woodwork and carpentry.

They are two completely different skill sets. Add too this that both courses would not touch on SEN, computer skills, electronics and there are many other things that would be missed out, and lets not forget H&S + teaching in a workkshop in very different to teaching in a classroom or ICT suite.

I do not know your age but woodwork and metalwork have not been taught in schools as a stand alone subject since before 1988.

"If QTS was fair and everybody teaching had them then I have no problem"

QTS is fair, the difference is that you have a QTLS, they are similar but not the same.

MTTP, our posts crossed.

MTPP

I have tutored for many years and have NEVER EVER been able to get a primary school to assess one of my tutees beyond Level 5. I have assessed them as such via giving them KS3 tests but all the primary schools in my area were relunctant to do so. It extra work you see. If your child is in a school where they are so flexible, you are so lucky.

I would keep her in the school and see if they will work with her especially in English and Maths to maximise her potential in getting into a top Grammar or Independent school.

Qualified teacher.
I am being straight with you here besides arguments about unqualified teachers. In fairness I did say there were several reasons for dd leaving school. If I thought her school could supply the education she needs in the time she has available, no doubt she would have stayed. The assessment was for music for G&T register. We didn't know about it until we left. I loved her school and thought it was good. The results at ks2 weren't fantastic, but the pastoral care and behaviour of dcs were second to none.
However, this does not mean I am happy with the nc nor the fact her teachers had none academic degrees. This still stands and were part of the reason for leaving. The main reason, is she can learn in a couple of hours what school would take all day to teach. We can tailor make her education to support her interests and goals, she is adamant she is going to reach. Oh and much of the great pastoral care was due to a school ethos from the top to bottom, not due to teachers nor them being qualified to teach. I do know there are no chances round here for decent secondary education, after all my peers are in most of them.

BoneyBack. Exactly, they are completely different. So why are so many of my peers teaching with QTLS yrs 7/8/9 in secondary schools. In addition, subjects they have no knowledge in at all, let alone a degree.

This is my point, teachers are complaining about Goves latest policies, but they are happening now and have been for some time.My argument is how can it be any worse just because he gives his approval to this.

Based on your posts here, there's no way you could home ed in English, MTPP - I realise some of this may be due to having English as a second language, but no way.TherThere's no,w

nor the fact her teachers had none academic degrees
what exactly would you class as a non academic degree?

For grammar and for scholarships at Indies the assessment is usually English, Maths, Non Verbal and Verbal Reasoning. I have been tutoring them for years privately and via tutorial centres.

She is G&T in Music but what about her Maths and English?

TA's
HLTA's
Cover supervisors
Now unqualified teachers being given the go ahead to teach.

Its not new and teachers have been "whining" and "bitching" about this for years but no-one will listen until its too late and teachers will get the blame for it as Gove will be long gone.

BBJ, agreed. We are always to blame for everything.

Do you remember the song, 'Blame it on the Rain,' by Milli Vanilli? If not check it out on YouTube The lyrics are

Whatever you do
Don't put the blame on you
Blame it on the Rain, oh yes
Blame it on the Rain in the sky above.....

We could change the lyrics to

Blame it on the teachers with QTS
Blame on the teachers who bothered to train
Whatever you do
Don't put the blame on you (or Gove or Balls)

Qualified.

I don't blame teachers, I just don't like the system and feel that it doesn't work. My comments about falling standards and teachers not being good enough because of a lack of an academic degree etc, are what I see as a failing of the system.

Feenie, ha ha very funny. My English runs rings round many primary teachers I know. Its shocking since I'm severely dyslexic and don't even have a GCSE in English. Another good reason for leaving state ed. I had forgot that one.

I don't get what point you're trying to make with your OP, MTPP. You have said that your local secondary schools are poor in part due to unqualified teachers (your PC peers) teaching in them. Your OP wonders why people are concerned with this current situation being given an official stamp of approval but you yourself don't approve of it.

And I still do not undrstand how you can possibly think you are qualified to teach your DD those subjects. And I'm genuinely amazed at her being evaluated at level 8 for music while still at primary school. My DCs are all G&T in music but the skills required to be level 8 are very sophisticated and I can't imagine any 10 or 11 year old (unless they were Mozart) mastering them. I'm also wondering how you will cover the GCSE syllabus for music with no opportunities for ensemble music making and composition.

What is it that certain posters on here fail to understand that my comments in any way suggest that I believe poor teaching is due to unqualified teachers?
I suggest it is down to people teaching without a degree in a suitable subject. I thought I'd made myself clear that QTS, QTLS, PGCE, PgCE are worthless. My peers are qualified teachers as am I.

The other qualified teachers here seem to dispute that....

As many fail to see the point in this thread I will leave it up to you. I frequently contribute to H.ed thread as well so may see you there. Maybe you have valid points to make regarding the subject