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Original poster

Unqualified teachers

164 replies

morethanpotatoprints · 04/08/2012 22:45

Who, apart from some qualified teachers are really mad about this. I do think there seems to be a lot of sensationalist reporting going on in the press.
I heard an advert on the radio today for unqualified teachers posts and apparentely they need a degree to be able to teach and in any subject. How is this any different than today with people with degrees in Textiles teaching in primary schools.
However, according to some QTs on here children will suffer as a consequence and anybody is allowed to teach without so much as a GCSE let alone a degree

OP posts:
omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 00:21

Well i had a very good relationship with my dd's teacher in primary2/3. She could see that my DD is not one of the Angel kids but can be a right horror, and she implemented measures to stop her awful behaviour in the classroom such as the traffic light system, and even brought a circle of carpet for her to sit on because she will get up and wander around, hide under desk, pretend to be a tiger etc. but the rule was she had to sit on carpet. My DD has extreme anger issues that still go undiagnosed, but this teacher was great, even made herself available on private messaging if there had been an incident at school. So DD moved up a class and i get this glowing report at end of term that does not sound at all like the DD I have at home and I was a bit concerned, so I says to DD, how do you handle your anger now? She says i snap all my pencils, i even snapped my ruler. So how come new teacher isnt picking up on whats going on with DD? New teacher is very experienced, old teacher just a couple of years out of training. I KNOW for a fact that DD is not the golden child that teacher portrays her to be, but she seems very airy fairy and as long as kids are quiet then there doesnt seem to be a problem. With other teacher DD was under psychologist but that seems to have stopped cos new teacher says no need. There is NO WAY that DD has changed overnight but has developed her own coping strategies. But I KNOW that DD still has extreme anger issues, but when I asked new teacher says is doing fine no problems. So in my opinion teacher with years of experience doesn't have a clue compared to teacher straight out of training. maybe not totally relevant to post but had to put it out there.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/08/2012 00:28

As we are moving threads

What would you like those that teach "textiles, woodwork, Drama, P.E etc." too have in the way of qualifications?

QualifiedTeacher · 05/08/2012 00:30

BBJ said,'As we are moving threads

What would you like those that teach "textiles, woodwork, Drama, P.E etc." too have in the way of qualifications?' Grin

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/08/2012 00:30

"So in my opinion teacher with years of experience doesn't have a clue compared to teacher straight out of training."

You are not in the classroom so you don't know
and
Your daughter has been able to develop and use statergies that a teacher has guided her with. It doesn't make the second teacher clueless.

omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 00:32

boney i think we would mostly agree that if they were teaching those specialist subjects then that would be fine

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 05/08/2012 00:35

This is a new thread Boney, similar subject though.

I would expect those that teach the above to have a degree in the subject they are going to teach. I expect those teaching in Primary to have an academic degree like Maths, Eng, Science, History, Geography.

To me this is more important than chancing whether the teacher gained a decent PGCE./ Good ITT/ Managed to gain a position without QTS and whatsmore continued for several years without it.

OP posts:
QualifiedTeacher · 05/08/2012 00:35

omfg said, 'boney i think we would mostly agree that if they were teaching those specialist subjects then that would be fine.'

In primary teachers have to teach everything, English, Maths, ICT, Geography, Music, Art, History, D&T, PE, RE, Citizenship, Science, etc. therefore what degree would be best for primary school since you can't do every degree known to man?

TuftyFinch · 05/08/2012 00:36

Nearly every profession has training attached: mechanic, vet, nurse, plumber, doctor, solicitor, life guard, police... should we just get rid of training for every job and all just choose what we fancy? I think I'd make a great mechanic, when do you want me to sort your breaks out?

omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 00:36

I think those strategies were taught by first teacher to be fair. I just find it difficult to comprehend that DD suddenly has no issues, and we are just talking about one individual, not all teachers with years of experience. Just that some teachers are obviously better than others regardless of years of experience, and it is a natural talent that cannot really be taught. Yes you can teach how to break down a maths problem, but social skills are something to be learned in school too, and perhaps training has changed over the years? I'm not qualified at all I can only speak of my own experience and didn't mean to offend anyone

scarlettsmummy2 · 05/08/2012 00:39

Really wouldn't worry me if a secondary school teacher didn't have a pgce but just a degree in their subject area and a natural ability and a passion for their subject.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/08/2012 00:43

omfgkillmenow

"i think we would mostly agree that if they were teaching those specialist subjects then that would be fine"

Textiles, RM (woodwork, metalwork plastics), Electronics, Systems and control, Engineering, Food tech, H.E, Hospitality and catering. All come under TECHNOLOGY, some schools employ specialists for KS4 but for KS3 you are expected to teach/know how to teach all of the variants.

P.E includes physiology i.e "the science of the function of living systems"
Drama includes a huge amount of English both language and literature and in some cases how sound systems and light systems work.

People should look at the syllabus of the subjects before posting a comment.

And just so you know
You haven't actually answered the question
What would you like those that teach "textiles, woodwork, Drama, P.E etc." too have in the way of qualifications?

omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 00:45

yeah qualified, but don't primary schools bring in teachers just to teach PE, Music, and in my limited experience textiles and woodwork are secondary subjects? I would like my DC's primary teacher to be qualified to higher grade in maths and English (at A or B) plus a couple of other subjects as a minimum but have more experience of dealing with classroom dynamics and how to handle a 30 strong group of wayward kids intent on doing as little work as possible and actually get them to learn something? In my opinion, just as a mum I feel too much emphasis is put on "apple day" and "sports day" I just want my DD to leave primary with a good grasp of English and be able to count, and to realise that she is not the centre of the world. Anything else is a bonus to me.

omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 00:46

Boney I have no idea what KS4 or KS3 is

LemarchandsBox · 05/08/2012 00:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TuftyFinch · 05/08/2012 00:53

Sorry Lemarchand I fancied a career change. I'm a nurse now. Would you like me to look at your knee?
Oh, it looks fine, off you go.

omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 00:55

Lemarch, yeah I know, that was a personal rant and did digress from topic, sorry

LemarchandsBox · 05/08/2012 00:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TuftyFinch · 05/08/2012 00:59

Did you train to be an athlete? No need. Anyone can do it. Your knee's fine, off you go to London.

LemarchandsBox · 05/08/2012 01:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/08/2012 01:00

scarlettsmummy2

A PGCE is not a licence to teach, there are many ways in to teaching Degree, GTP etc.

All teachers in English schools must have QTS, Qualified Teacher status. In scottish schools it is something similar.

QTS means that you have met all of the Professional standards for teaching practice. you can download them here

MTPP

Same thread different name.

and I still would like to know what qualifications that you would like those that teach "textiles, woodwork, Drama, P.E etc" should have. Given that textiles and woodwork are not a subject in there own right at KS3.

omfgkillmenow

KS3 = year 7 - year 9 or the three years before GCSE
KS4 = Year 10 - 11 or The GCSE years

omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 01:00

i did just pick up on the textile degree to be able to teach in primary school, secondary is a whole different ball game, you should have a degree in the subject you are teaching. My degree is a 2:1 in psychology and sociology, I don't have a teaching qual but if I did I would only feel comfortable teaching those subjects.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/08/2012 01:02

LemarchandsBox

"Teaching shouldn't vary, except along personality lines."

So what you are saying is that teaching needs some sort of standardised training?

mumnosGOLDisbest · 05/08/2012 01:04

I feel ive read this exact same thread somewhere before Hmm.
I'm primary trained, couldnt have got on my degree without maths and english and btw i teach pe, music, french... We dont have funding for specialists.

LemarchandsBox · 05/08/2012 01:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

omfgkillmenow · 05/08/2012 01:06

so KS3 would be primary seven to second year, and KS4 third and forth year? In Scottish schools you do science, and home ec, or tech in second year. In third year you choose biology, physics or chemistry-then cookery-or woodwork/metalwork/plastics or tech drawing. Surely by 3rd year, or KS4, your teacher should have a degree in the subject they are teaching. If they don't then thats just Biscuit