Something EVERY parent of a child in a UK State school should know about

[QualifiedTeacher]

The UK Government has new proposals to allow non qualified teachers to teach in UK schools. This means our children?s education may be placed in the hands of teachers without basic qualifications such as English and Maths GSCE let alone a Bachelors degree. This policy will mainly be affecting children from the lower economic backgrounds and the reasoning behind employing unqualified teachers is simply because it costs less.

I have attached an epetition which gives more information and is asking for signatures to oppose the use of unqualified teachers in UK State schools. If the numbers signing this petition is large enough, we can get the debate discussed in the UK Parliament. Please help and protect the education of all UK children in State schools.

Thanks

I do find it bizarre that people who have problems with the standards of teaching AS IT IS think that accepting unqualified teachers and paying them less is going to somehow improve things.

Do you think that accepting unqualfied doctors and nurses would also make the NHS better?

It is such a stupid argument.

Nobody is saying that there aren't poor teachers and that there aren't poor schools but accepting teachers with no training and no qualifications (who effectively undermine qualified teachers and the qualifications themselves) is hardly going to help.

'It's the relentlessness of teaching and everything that goes with it.'

Totally agree with that. Just staying the course of a teaching qualfication and clocking up the hours in front of a whole class with all the planning that goes with it is a real sign of commitment and I'd say real commitment is over half of the battle to becoming a good teacher.

'Currently, very few individuals with special needs in mainstream schools are receiving adequate education from appropriately trained professionals.'

But Gove is arguing that teachers can teach with NO qualifications. Honestly, I respect what you're saying, that things are not good enough at the moment but I don't get how you think Gove's proposals will make things better.

I'd also say that the sort of people queuing up to teach who aren't qualified to do so will rarely have as much experience as you do.

They are much more likely to be TAs and support staff who are press-ganged into the classroom and exploited by being paid their usual salary for trying to do the job of a teacher. They will be required to do cover lessons probably for non eBAcc and probably bottom set classes. It is very unlikely that they will want to do this or be properly supported or paid for doing this.

By and large the sort of people who want and will be good at teaching are the sort of people who train to become teachers. Sort of stands to reason really doesn't it? Likewise with nurses, doctors etc.

'You all automatically assumed I was in cloud cuckoo land for suggesting I could do your jobs without training, yet I guarantee you that my knowledge, skills and experience in terms of teaching individuals with SEN far outstrips that of the average TA providing an education for that child with limited supervision or training in the school SEN area'

But, under the current system, a TA SHOULD NOT be providing education for children with or without SEN. They should be working with the teacher under his or her supervision. And, yes, the teacher should be qualified and trained to deal with all the pupils in his or her care.

I'm in a school, TA, where they are "restructuring" to give us more "opportunities" in the new year. Read this as, we're giving you a tiny amount more money and expecting you to take on classes when teachers are ill or when they are in meetings, saving us butt-loads of money and giving you the opportunity to feel worthless in front of a class of 30-odd kids! The new job descriptions say that we can be moved from class to class depending on need.

TAs for years have been given groups of children, usually those most difficult to teach, and we're expected to deliver sessions without any planning time, without any relevant training and usually without any direct instruction. We are supposed to be given plans and just to execute them, but this doesn't happen.

More often than not we're handed the kids that disrupt the lessons and told to do a bit of phonics with them or are told the aim of the lesson in a 3 minute overview before we take out little Johnny and Mary who are 'struggling to connect'. The amount of thinking on my feet I've had to do with this job has been unreal.

Do I do a decent job?? Most of the time I believe I do. Sometimes I struggle like buggery. Does anyone care? Truthfully? I don't think so. These are kids who've been written off anyway 9 times out of 10 because they won't achieve the SATs scores the school wants and needs for Ofsted.

Can you tell I'm a bit angry about this? There's a HUGE difference between letting people who aren't qualified, as in someone who is an expert in their field but not teacher qualified, teach, and letting TAs, who are not experts in the field and are not teacher qualified, teach. We may be fantastic at working with small groups (and many of us are), we may be great at delivering special intervention programmes for children, but we are NOT qualified, capable or equipped to deal with a class of 30 children for a whole school day. And we can be asked to do this for up to 5 days!!!!

Teachers will, allegedly, give you the plans you need to follow when you are expected to teach. They don't do this for their teaching assistants for the small stuff...why are they suddenly going to do it for full days?? I am, needless to say, looking for alternative employment. I can earn the same money in Tescos stacking shelves.

Perhaps if this weeds out those who would rather be stacking shelves in Tesco's it is already a good thing. ( Although it is very arrogant to assume Tesco's will just take you - do you really think people with a massive chip on their shoulder are an asset in customer service?)
The point about all those high calibre people who knuckled down and did the pgce, well - they had, didn't they - there was no other option if they wanted to teach. Who knows how many equally good, or better people could not afford a year off to do it, and who would give new, fresh enthusiasm and skills to schools if they were allowed to. Much easier for a new graduate without family repsonsibilities to do it - how many older people with children can afford that luxury?
I wonder if teachers are just scared of an influx of people with experience outside education to shake up the system and not put up with the tick-box, CMA-with-pivot tables-and paperwork that (as demonstrated by those on this threadly proudly state) the teaching job has become.

I am, needless to say, looking for alternative employment. I can earn the same money in Tescos stacking shelves

I think this is the crux of the issue. Why would anyone want the stress and paperwork of teaching for the same amount of money as working in Tesco? Unless it's to do with the better perceived status of teachers compared to stacking shelves (excuse me whilst I clutch my sides to stop them splitting from laughter) and those long holidays?

Gove makes it sound like there are currently lots of super clever academics who would make excellent teachers, who for xyz reason, just can't quite commit to doing the training, who are waiting in the sidelines for the opportunity to make our country great.

1. If these people genuinely wanted to teach-surely they'd have qualified by now.
2. Will these ever so clever people want to teach for minimum wage. Will that pay their mortgage?

Is it not likely that it will actually end up being the TAs/LSAs who have experience in the classroom, who are mostly already on low wages, who will be the ones to take these posts.

Has Gove actually stated that these unqualified teachers (will they become known as qualified teachers or will there still be a distinction?!) need a degree/GCSE/induction/mentoring-or not. There is a big difference, in my opinion between someone who is has a degree and someone who has 2 O levels.

If you decide that Dave Smith from the bank hasn't got any qualifications and doesn't need many to teach Reception as they're only really teeny, but is a really nice chap and would be great if given just half a chance-where does it all stop...

Would people be so happy if this was nurses we were talking about?

I advise teachers on how to alter the curriculum from P6 through to Level 4 across a range of abilities

unfortunately my class in September has pupils working below the P levels

I wonder if teachers are just scared of an influx of people with experience outside education to shake up the system and not put up with the tick-box, CMA-with-pivot tables-and paperwork that (as demonstrated by those on this threadly proudly state) the teaching job has become.

Nope, just scared of someone walking in off the street with no teaching experience or training and fucking up children's education.

They are not guinea pigs.

It's very simple.

I'm very confused! doesnt take much at the mo
*To childmind (3yrs ago) my twaching degree and experience wasn't enough had to retrain and there was talk of CMs needing a degree.
*ofsted inspectors now need teaching experience to carry out inspections.

• i may soon be overqualufied (with qts) to teach! It seems like everyone in education needs to be qualified except teachers. Are we really valued so little ? :(

Btw this is already happening. My now ex-colleague (teacher of 2.5days in 2 classes) has been replaced with a hilta :(

Btw this is already happening. My now ex-colleague (teacher of 2.5days in 2 classes) has been replaced with a hilta

Is this in an academy?

No state school.

mrsG, I wonder why you are wilfully pursuing your own rather individual take on this and ignoring what people actually in the system are telling you. I wonder if you could address the following points?

1.) Please explain why you think unqualified teachers will make better teachers and be more able to 'shake up the system' than those who are qualified.

2.) Do you also feel that the NHS should start recruiting unqualified nurses and doctors and that this would be a good thing? Why/not?

3.) Do you honestly think it is fair to pay a TA salary for doing the job of a teacher? Is it fair on a) the TAs b) teachers c) students?

4.) Please outline the sorts of candidates who are likely to choose/ be recruited to teach at a minimum wage when they are unqualfied? Do you really think these people are more likely to be more committed and better able to deal with the demands of teaching thant those who have trained and are being paid to teach?

5.) Have you read flappers post above? Do you not realize that in 9 out of 10 cases Gove's proposals are going to mean that TAs like her are going to be pressganged into covering classes that would be better off with a qualified teacher rather than your rather unlikely scenario of armies of unqualified but somehow incredibly skilled and enthusiastic teachers appearing to enhance the system and teach qualified and in many cases, outstanding teachers a thing or two?

'The point about all those high calibre people who knuckled down and did the pgce, well - they had, didn't they - there was no other option if they wanted to teach.'

Er, yes. That's sort of how it works when you train for a particular career.

'Who knows how many equally good, or better people could not afford a year off to do it, and who would give new, fresh enthusiasm and skills to schools if they were allowed to. '

What am I missing here? Is your argument that teachers would be better teachers if they didn't train but instead had a year off instead of doing the PGCE?

Perhaps we should just give doctors a five year holiday before allowing them into hospitals to operate too?

Truly bonkers.

'I wonder if teachers are just scared of an influx of people with experience outside education to shake up the system and not put up with the tick-box, CMA-with-pivot tables-and paperwork that (as demonstrated by those on this threadly proudly state) the teaching job has become. '

I'm also loving the idea that all these unqualified and ununionised TAs will somehow more power and authority to question Govt initiatives than teachers do?

Honestly, MrsG, some of your ideas are priceless!!

Well I had 15 years experience outside education then did a four year BEd honours degree which gave me QTS wonder if Mrs G approves

What about the poor students 2-3 years into a 4yr degree and already in debt? They might as well quit their courses now, save a year or 2s debt andd start teaching to pay off what they already owe! :(

That's no good at all mrz. I think what mrsG is saying is that the training itself makes you a worse teacher. Much better to have had a nice long holiday. Then you'll be really calm with 9G on a Friday afternoon

I think mrsg is coming from a position where she thinks all teachers are badly trained and bad at teaching so it's much better to employ untrained non-teachers QED

So I'm over qualified to be a nurse with my first aid cert?

Yes. You'd be a much more enthusiastic nurse and also more effective at shaking up the NHS if you had absolutely no qualfications.

Definately mrz and why would you need that as a teacher? You are truly overqualified. Go back to tescos and shelf stacking :)

Someone I met once said I could be quite caring-can I start being a nurse?