I send my child to private school because....?

[jabed]

Well, I don?t actually, I just work in one. But it seems to be a constant source of questioning on MN and given the current news articles (I have been reading the DM and Tory graph online) about how many of our left wing leaders hypocritically claim to be egalitarian and socialist whilst buying education for their children , or have had education paid for by their own parents. I just wondered, what is it we expect from education, and why is it some of us are willing to pay for whatever that is and how they see that as worthy of their money.

There you go. :)

THE reason they attend private school is because the education they receive is tailored to their individual needs. They are not educated to jump through government test hoops, they receive an excellent, broad and solid education

I agree entirely newpup.

Obfuscation? Apart from a mild deviation onto Gervase Phinn, I thought I was crystal clear! What don't you understand?

I can see why where I live some people are choosing to pay to go independent. We arent in a grammar school area, there is one mediocre comp in the town and that's your lot.

Actually though, there isnt much choice in the way of independents!

I live in the midlands (so not in the middle of nowhere) but it is an educational black hole!

exotic, it is not about competition and trying to "beat the rest".

I moved my DC to a private primary as:

• his State school had given up on him (not officially) as he was going to be a stat anyway (ie one of those kids who does not get to level 4 by Y6) and they just put him in with the year below UNOFFICIALLY, so technically he was in Y3, but he sat in with Y2 IYSWIM.

• he got beaten up a few times and it was dealt with really badly (ie not dealt with, and he was told it was his responsibility to stay away from this boy. Boy beat up a little girl too, and another boy who lost a tooth! he was not excluded as HT does not do exlusions)

• There was lots of focus on working in groups, which y DS find really hard due to SEN, and he never did any work this way.

• He was in a class of 37 in year 3

• he did almost no work, his work books were mainly empty. teacher says he daydreams and as class so big she cannot check he is actually working.

This was an OUTSTANDING primary. I found out it had good results as over half of parents have their kids tutored, some every day.

All in all, I had to move him to give him a chance. Other local primaries booked full. The Private school had a space.

He is now benefiting from:

• more SEN support
• smaller class size, less disruption
• more structure in the day (a weekly schedule, parents get a copy)

-specialist teachers. His maths teacher has discovered he is actually good at maths, she was very excited. She CARED (sob)

• Kids who beat someone up get sent home.
• he feels safer and more relaxed. Has stopped biting his nails, and does more work.
• he is a much happier child

He may even get to an expected level by Y6 for literacy, and above (!!!) for maths.

Long story, I am sure nobody has read it (don't blame you!). But I just wanted to share this with all those who think private schools are about snobbery, making contacts, getting a leg up, stupid boaters etc.

for us it was not about that AT ALL.

It's nothing to do with obfuscation, and it's not off-topic - because your pro-private reasoning seems to entail a vocabulary which is innately offensive and unpleasant towards state schools. I 'know' lots of obscure phrases nd words (cripple, nigger, retarded, thick, spastic, backward....) which may have been in common currency in the 1950s, but would not claim that they were in any way inoffensive, or in regular use by anyone now.

I believe you said you were born in the 1950s? This gives you an 80% chance of being younger than my father, who wouldn't dream of using that phrase, so all this 'I'm just an old-fashioned man who says it like it is using perfectly normal phrases which anyone educated properly would know and understand' won't wash.

And jumping through governent test hoops is one of the most popular events at our council non-competitive state school sports day, obviously....

Although my DS is at an independent school I'm curious about what "tailored to their individual needs" actually means? Although my DS has subject choices eg art instead of music and choices in sport rackets instead of the loathed cricket he has 7-8 compulsory subjects has to attend school 6 days a week etc etc. I cannot see however good an independent school is that there can be much individual variation on a theme.

If you were orb in the 50s (missed that bit) then I would imagine that you weren't talking about schools much until the 60s or even 70s, when I am pretty sure the expression "council school" was not common usage.

I'm still waiting for Jabed to tell me where my position on private education is in any way unclear or ambiguous!

Chanson- I'm really glad you found a school that suits your ds. I think one of the things I find difficult when we're talking about this is that obviously there a good and bad schools in all sectors, but for some people, one bad experience of a state school is enough for them to dismiss the entire sector. It would not be reasonable for me to say "well, my godson was bullied at prep school and it was handled badly, so all prep schools are rubbish". So why is it reasonable to say that about state schools?

But I think the difference is that 'council school' was never used in a derogatory way, it was just what they were called - it used to be the official, letterheaded name of mine until the mid-1960s and people still used it, out of habit I suppose, when I went in the 70s.

I think you are taking offence where none was intended, refusing to accept the explanations of several different posters, and are utterly determined to use this one tiny point as evidence that people who support the option of private education are all looking down on the great unwashed.

Loads of people have been on to explain why they send their DC to an independent school, including quite specific points, yet certain posters are never going to believe that it is anything other than snobbery and buying advantage.

Happy - my understanding is that you would choose the indie school that is appropriate (rather than each school caters for every child differently). But the point remains: You have a choice.

I have two extremely different children, so my views a bit magnified, but I don't really believe that the state 'one size fits all' is actually good for most kids. I know both of mine would / will struggle. And I see quite a few of their friends who are / will struggle with it.

Seeker - I think lots of indie schools are 'worse' than state schools on lots of issues. I am sure there are dire preps just as I am sure there are great state schools. The issue is finding the right school and that is, IMO, easier in the private sector.

My DS was due to go to a (highly) selective prep. It's not the right school for him and it's been handled well. He has been accepted into the local state which (again, IMO!) isn't right for him and they know it, but they aren't allowed to say it and I'm not supposed to question it.... so we run, headlong, into what we all know (privately) will be a complete disaster. That's what worries me about the state sector. THey have to be seen never to fail and, while that's a lovely idea, it's just... not realistic. That's not a pop at anyone. It's not. It's just sometimes, it just doesn't work like that.

I've just decided to trust my own judgement NOT to send my DS to school. And I am feeling A MILLION times better for it. It's right for you, and that's great.

worry, completely agree with you

I don't know why you'd recruit a term that hasn't been used in about 30 years to make your point though.... but we shall leave it at that. Words and nuance matter, IMO, but then that's just the state educated fool in me speaking I expect!

I do see though that as worry says - finding the right school [...] is, IMO, easier in the private sector because of course you do have choice about the 'product' once you leave behind the issue of catchment area and so on. And if you essentially don't have an issue with private education, I can see that that's a very compelling feature of it.

" Loads of people have been on to explain why they send their DC to an independent school, including quite specific points, yet certain posters are never going to believe that it is anything other than snobbery and buying advantage."

"certain posters" have been explaining why they don't agree with private education too, but some people are never going to believe that they are motivated by anything but jealousy.

Seeker - I don't think you are motivated by jealousy, I think you are motivated by being lucky enough to have had positive experiences of the state sector and are unable or unwilling to concede that others have not been so lucky.

Thank you "worry" the thing we found when looking at senior full boarding schools is how little variation there is. Many make very grand claims on their websites open days etc about how unique they are but on closer examination most seemed to be pretty much the same. Independent schools are pretty heavily regulated those who inspect them expect to see certain things in place and failure to do this results in poor inspection report. We listened to virtually identical speaches from heads talked to children and teachers spouting the same praises off their individual school and ate the same canapés/meals. Although we believe our chosen school is unique it still has much in common with others. I'm sceptical that there is that much variation on a theme apart from levels of selectivity most schools are clever marketing machines and as many are significantly under subscribed especially at the lower end of the results spectrum say what they think parents want to hear.

Oh I really can't bear it when the decision to educate privately gets spun as some kind of hard-luck tale and the state school users get cast as the privileged ones! O walk a mile in my shoes and then you will understand why we poor unfortunates with thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds to spare have it so tough!

TOSN if you aiming this at me Im not telling anyone a hard luck tale just commenting on the "tailored to individual needs" comment. I personally having spent over a decade in independent ed remain sceptical that it is that tailored having said that state ed is certainly not tailored IME.

Nit - I consider myself privileged because DD was having a miserable time of it and I had the necessary thousands and thousands of pounds to look around for an alternative. It's not a hard luck tale, it's an explanation.

Happy no not aimed at you. adeuc but this thing of telling people they'd soon change their minds about state/private if their state schools weren't good is silly. It assumes so much.

"Seeker - I don't think you are motivated by jealousy, I think you are motivated by being lucky enough to have had positive experiences of the state sector and are unable or unwilling to concede that others have not been so lucky."

Wrong.

Certain posters seems to be taken by noble but utopian ideas of fairness and equality. Freedom,equality,brotherhood sort of thing. Hammer and Sickle.

And, I can't help feeling, secrect feeling of moral superiority. To the point when they make statements on behalf of abstract fair society for the good of abstract fair society of what is right or wrong way to bring up children.

History shows us that pure socialist/communist societies are not possible for all sorts of reason. It has been tried and failed. It doesnt work because someone will always take advantage and be more privileged. Now, the unfairness of education system in this country is obvious. But I doubt that any critic on this thread given a chance could provide a perfect solution.

I have much more time for some who is making an effort to bring their own children in the best way they believe is right , not for the good of society but for their children. This is real, the rest is empty words and meaningless slogans.

at the shadow of the hammer and sickle produced by the voluntary use of state education provision.

I don't know why you'd recruit a term that hasn't been used in about 30 years to make your point though.... but we shall leave it at that. Words and nuance matter, IMO, but then that's just the state educated fool in me speaking I expect!

As a state educated person and teacher I do not think the state educated are fools. Neither does Jabed, I feel.

I am a bit aghast at a weird kind of playground ganging up that occurs with some adult posters (who are usually advocating understanding and tolerance) when Jabed writes. He has written fairly regularly on these sites and his style is always rather old fashioned by today's mores - I am guessing he probably enjoys the 'Old Fogey' soubriquet a little. Can posters not contextualize some of this in relation to background and experience? To be fair he seems to have paid his dues to children who need support.

As someone who has in the past worked in tough schools, where there are many inspirational teachers replete with the requisite skills, I can confirm that for many of us, there is a time when our inner resources are exhausted and then it is better to withdraw for a time lest cynicism and negativity affect us and our pupils. Certainly these schools become heavier work as we age. I have seen it in colleagues Disagreement is interesting but over sensitive personal insult is embarrassing to read and makes these threads less enjoyable as does jumping on an aspect of a post and worrying it to death.

1. Private school pupils do better. They are 8% of children but 73% of judges, huge numbers in teh cabinet, senior board posts, leading lawyers, accountants and the like. As as a woman choosing a career which means you can pay school fees is just about the best thing you can do for your children,. The £1m or whatever it is I will have spent on my five from age 3 - 22+ (including university fees) is the best money I have spent.

1. 50% of Olympians went to private schools - much better sport.

1. Music - very important for us with 3 children with music scholarships, very into church choral music etc - you get more of that and better at private schools.

1. Environment - I like to go to school events where there are fields and lakes and parents are like me so I have things in common with them (although not all of them are) who are quite clever, hard working, high achieving, powerful, makes social events easier. Labour spent a lot on state school buildings but still on the whole private schools are better.

1. I wanted single sex academic education from age 5 in a school where most children are not bright enough to get in and the whole class works at a high level in schools in the top 20 or so in the UK - NLCS, Habs etc.

1. I wanted to buy my children a peer group who all do well and have high aspirations so they cannot follow little Joan who wants to work in a call centre or beauty salon because 100% of their cohort will go to top universities and will be aiming to fly planes, be doctors, lawyers, business leaders (using examples of my daughters' friends here) and I wanted my children not to be on mumsnet in 15 years' time complaining about not being able to afford organic food or a nanny or a nice house or the credit crunch - I want them to have easier lives financially if that be their choice and to be in a group of girls where people do make good financial choices in terms of career (and my girls earn about £50k - £60k in their mid 20s so that bit has worked too so far... although of course I would also be happy if they chose different paths, wanted to be contemplative nuns or follow their hobbies, entirely up to them but at least they have choices).

1. I was going to add accent and confidence but that is the least of what I bough and buy although it is part of it and not all children at local private schools do speak that well around here.

1. Broad ranging wide education not limited to exam passing, education for its own sake, a love of learning, smaller classes, feeling valued and very much wanted an academic environment where everyone knows they are lucky to be there and their parents worked hard to get them there and parents are consumers who can ensure classes are not subject to low levevl disruption and anyone doing that disruption will be out on their ear much faster than in a state schools. Useless teachers can more easily be sacked too.

1. Eccentricity, risk taking, unusualness - hard to explain but you can get that kind of variety in the private sector.

10. Because I can - i decided in my teens to earn reasonable amount of money, buy an island (which I did in 2005) large house, nice large family. School fees are expensive but not overly so for me. I could pay double what they now are and be okay.

seeker - at the shadow of Hammer and Sickle lots of terrible things happened.
No grin from me.