Why are quieter children so undervalued?

[googlenut]

I've got three children, some extrovert and some introvert. And each year some teacher will bring up the more introverted ones quietness as if it was a fault. It really irritates me, anyone else?

I was very introverted at school. My reports always said I lacked confidence. I did very well academically though.

Ds is the opposite, boundless confidence but doesn't seem to do well at school. I think a lot of it is he talks too much and annoys his teacher. In his end of year report his teacher wrote "His conversation and enthusiasm will be missed by his class mates." I interpreted that as she won't miss him at all!

Primary?

I think it's more personality driven because it's a more intense relationship. DS had a teacher who told me she didn't understand how his mind worked, and she didn't, but DD she absolutely got, and was probably her most successful teacher.

In secondary, there are far more teachers and less time with each. Loud actually gets a bit wearing. My DS is quite loud (but still an introvert I think, in that he needs his social down time to function), and I know that it will not be charming to his teachers in September...

If we all stepped forward all of the time, no one would ever get a bloody word in. Thinking of one extrovert character I know in particular, if everyone was like her it would be an absolute nightmare!

Perhaps rather than suggesting that quieter people need to change, what we actually should be doing is encouraging listening skills, so that it is not just the loudest and pushiest members of society who get their voices heard.

Yes, I think there was a huge personality clash for DS1, he and his teacher couldn't really communicate. Luckily we have the 3 tier system here so he was saved in Year 5 at Middle School by the youngest, kindest teacher and he is now in Year 8 at High School and doing very well.

There's a very good book on this called Quiet: the power of introverts in a world which can't stop talking by Susan Cain. It has a chapter on parenting introverts which i recommend.

I have often noted in life that those who are critical of the quiet are generally (whispers it) quite stupid. They fear those who look like they might be thinking deep thoughts. It is difficult to avoid such people but their opinions should always be taken with a pinch of salt.

The quiet children are not undervalued at my school! We love them!

But shyness is different from introvertedness, or being quiet. A quiet child is fine, a child crippled by shyness needs some help in order to develop strategies to overcome their shyness.

I was a shy child. Would go bright red in class if I had to say anything, couldn't read my stories or poems out like the other kids, couldn't put my hand up or share my ideas, even though I had loads of ideas and was very bright. The shyness was a disability for me, and I was very glad when my secondary school decided to help me overcome it, or I wouldn't be able to do the job I do today.

I am still quiet, and introverted, but the difference is that now I am confident too.

I think it's because most (but not by all means all) teachers are extroverts themselves. The job, by it's nature, attracts people who like working with lots of people and being the centre of attention for most of the day.
So they struggle to understand introverts or people who are shy or lacking in confidence. I don't think they deliberately overlook quiet children or seek to criticise them, at least I hope not.

And I agree with overmydeadbody that shyness is different from quietness.

YANBU - I totally agree. We live in an extrovert world, but it's just not the way some people are made. Introversion and quietness are not faults, they are natural character traits. And there are positive aspects to this kind of personality.

My DD went through a quiet stage.
The teacher told me that because DD didnt put her hand up often,that the teacher did not know whether my DD had properly understood what she was being taught.

I actually find it hard when people assume the more extroverted children are confident with great self esteem.

My DS can talk non-stop, is funny and friendly to everyone. But he has low self esteem and couldn't talk about a real problem if he needed to because he can't articulate himself and gets embarassed. He is also a target for bullies because as soon as someone is mean/ unkind he cannot find a suitable retort. His complete sense of honesty and inability to speak out has even got him in trouble before.

He's the child that's always heard but never truely heard iyswim?

I think teachers comment on quiet children because they slow everything down.

Life is too short to jolly the shy ones into taking their turn answering questions in class.

It's totally wrong, but it's easier to just let the loud ones answer.

In DD2s class it's the confident ones who do all the front of house for assembly etc. half of Y6 almost seem not to exist.

It happens this quiet half are the less academic ones and the ones who desperately need their confidence boosting.

I love DD2s teacher, but I do think she's taken the easy way out.

I think you have explained that nicely StarBall. It sums up how I felt.

If DS1 cried he got sent to the Office because the teacher said she 'couldn't do anything with him'. He learnt how to photocopy.

starballbunny you have just summed up what makes a grade 4 (inadequate) lesson. Outstanding teachers DIFFERENTIATE to ensure every child has equal opportunity to learn. If such a comment was made about a teacher failing to provide equal opportunity to a child with special needs there would be uproar on here.

I do think there is a great deal of truth in the comment that a high number of teachers, especially at primary, are uber confident all rounders though. Thinks of MIL who can sing in tune, keep time, knows about reading and literature, can cope with maths, and is/was good at sport. She was a round peg in a round hole and loved school, went to teacher training college and started teaching at 21, retiring at 60. The problem is/was that her experience of life beyond school was and remains extremely limited and she has a rather odd view of what makes the world go round.

Gosh, lots of resentment here.
I think I'm quite introverted & always felt like it was a great advantage to me in most things. I only really got hassle off my parents who couldn't understand introversion (as my father finally realised when I was about 20, he even apologised for not understanding me sooner).

2 DK are introverted, but they have learnt to be more forthcoming (confident, feisty & to speak up for themselves) & I see all that as a good thing.
My most extroverted child gets in lots of trouble & it's a big challenge for him to learn to STFU. He is also the least confident DK deep down. I would say being extroverted is a much more difficult condition to live with, because they want to be out there confidently but may not be able to pull it off, so end up quite frustrated.

Oh googlenut yes. Two of mine are like this and I got so sick of hearing teachers commenting on how they 'need more confidence', like it was something you could just pop in your basket and buy at Sainsburys. They are kind, thoughtful, lovely girls and we love them to bits.

married in white, you have summed it up so well:

Now I just reply "she is who she is and we love her for who she is and the important thing is her self esteem and that will not be supported if we tell her she should be different from who she is". She will be most successful if she is allowed to be herself.

DD1 is a quiet shy introvert. Her teacher this year has really helped her put her ideas and thoughts forward. At parents' evening he said that he was the same as a child, he had good ideas but was nervous of putting his hand up in class. He felt he missed out on a lot because he never spoke up and thought that dd1 was the same. She does need to speak out more, as she doesn't always understand what is being taught and needs to speak up and say so rather than just trying to muddle through. He said as much in this year's report and I agree with him.

DD1 is amazing, she is bright and funny and loving, I wouldn't change her for the world. She just needs a bit of help showing that to the rest of the world.

I'm am certain DDs teacher does not miss the quiet ones out in lessons. I know huge efforts go into differentiation in that class.
And seeing some of the quietest ones take speaking roles in the play I know she tries.

It's just assembly is what the parents and perhaps more importantly younger children see.

I'm not certain seeing the most confident girls at the front each week encourages the quieter ones or the boys to think I could do that.

It sounds like I am full of resentment doesn't it? It was a difficult time, so talking about it now makes me feel a bit All good now though.

Quiet is a problem if the student doesn't understand something and doesn't communicate this. It will really hinder the student's education if they are completely unable to ask for help - either from the teacher or from the students around them.

That's true noble,the 'don't bring your work to me unless it's right' stopped him asking for help at all though. He didn't dare.

Yes, well that teacher was an idiot! I'm a maths teacher and kids being afraid to write stuff down or to give an answer unless they are sure it's right is a big problem.

I hate some primary schools' tendency to get kids to do their 'rough work' (i.e. the calculations that show their thought processes) in the back of their book or on a different piece of paper, hidden and out of sight as if it is something to be ashamed of rather than a vital part of their work which should be displayed along with their final answer.

This is the subject that brought me to MN a few years ago - dd, now 12 seemed to be 'shy' but I know her and it was far more than that. I googled "Highly Sensitive Children" HSC, and found not only a thread in MN, but also the more accurate description of dd, and how to communicate/understand her better.

In the end he ended up with a fear of maths and decided he couldn't do it even before he had read the question, and was virtually sick before every test.

here's one from 2008, though there are others