The best Independent schools generally take the highest qualified teachers?

[Hamishbear]

It might be obvious to many that the most academic schools insist that their teachers have an outstanding degree from one of the best universities but it wasn't to me.

For example if you want a job in Maths at Guildford High school allegedly you need a first in Maths from a well regarded university. You obviously need to be an outstanding teacher in the fullest sense too.

So do the elite schools usually have the best teachers? I suppose it stands to reason that there is more competition for jobs at schools that have a fantastic reputation?

I was born in Norwich. As I left there shortly after my first birthday, I know nothing about the schooling there...

I would not, in fact, presume to know anything about the current state of schooling aywhere except the two areas I have lived in while my own children have been at school, and the neighbouring area in which I teach.

Certainly I would not base any detailed comments about current schooling about anywhere where I lived as a child or where I went to school (far too out of date), nor anywhere I lived as a child-less adult or one with only pre-school children (as i did not teach at that time, either).

Teacherwith2kids- it might be worth just bearing in mind I still have family here, even if I did move away for a time. Its not fair to suggest that as I spent five years in another part of the country I dont know my home town or the region where I grew up. If you need any evidence the education system here is rubbish I would suggest my achievements or lack of them would be it. So I am keen to make sure my DC's get a better chance.

If you have lived in the same place for a long time you tend to go by reputations which are way out of date-so far out to be relevant.
I know one school, a small village one, where all the staff changed at the end of one summer term (just by chance) and yet the school had a reputation!! Who could know what it would be like?!

Sohia,

I am not suggesting that you know nothing about the schooling where you live (although some of what you know may be a little out of date). Just that 'I've always lived here, you have lived here for only X years so you don't know as much as I do because I'm a local' is not necessarily a good argument.

Schools do change with time, though. The school my DS will go to - now one of the higest performing comprehensives in the county, outperforming the private schools - used to be a 'true' secondary modern, with results to match. Equally his current school used to be 3-16 school incorporating a secondary modern, and is now a very good primary.... public perception does not always change as quickly as schools do, though...

public perception does not always change as quickly as schools do, though...

Exactly-my DCs went to a school that some locals thought 'rough'-I think it was-30 years ago!

exoticfruits - you are just saying what I have said many times here. Some schools are living off reputations. I certainly found this was true of several independent schools some posters on MN suggested to me. I took the time to look at them all.

Many schools live off reputations that are no longer deserved, and others live off reputations that are valid for some families and not for others. Still others do not have much of a reputation while doing an excellent job (not investing in PR and marketing does not a bad school make).

And often the reputation is ultimately derived purely from the fact that one has to pay to go to that school. It's the sort of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing attitude that one would hope wasn't prevalent among sensible people ........and yet, still it lingers.

I found that it was much better not to know the reputation before looking at schools-they are more of a hindrance than a help.

I teach in a school which was in Special Measures but last October was judged Satisfactory with Good Features. The next closest school has had OFSTED in recently and went from Outstanding to Satisfactory. My school still has a reputation for being crap (it's not) and the other is considered to be brilliant (it's not)

To Sohia : thank you, your explanation has been refreshingly forthright. :)

FYI there is one very decent comp in Exeter, the FE college gets an incredibly diverse range of results

Only one in a city the size of Exeter Metabilis? Mmmmm and an FE college that gets "diverse" results? In other words not very good then, clearly.

Well jabed I'm not sure that we can assess the poor quality of education in the SW solely by looking at sohia's lack of achievements, as she suggests. This idea that she knows all there is to know about education in the region simply by virtue of being born here is shaky too, as several have said - she seems a little out of touch tbh. I'd agree that the S.E. is far better served in the independent sector than the SW, where there aren't any particularly outstanding schools AFAIK. Happy to be corrected though, I could be wrong.

I think the Maynard and Exeter school are good schools. Just, you know, not the best in the county.

Well jabed I'm not sure that we can assess the poor quality of education in the SW solely by looking at sohia's lack of achievements, as she suggests

Yellowtip, I am not sure where you are coming from with thisstatement. I have made no assessments of anything based on Sohia's posts. I just thanked her for her reply.

Now, I have had a late night, and I am off to bed. Good night (good morning to you) :)

I suppose I'm simply coming from the fact that sohia offered this as 'evidence' of the poverty of education in the SW, which is a non starter. She also suggested that only those born here have a true understanding of the quality of schooling in the region. She also wasn't up to speed with the admissions process until she checked it out on the council website. So I personally wouldn't set too much store by the vehemence with which she slates all state education in the SW. Sometimes those paying fees seem to feel the need to justify that (not sure why) and do so by slagging off all state provision, when in reality some schools in this area are just fine.

Some schools keep their reputations and keep good results for years though. I don't think my children's schools have gone up and down particularly. Sometimes you get a less bright year but on the whole they do well. You need to avoid flash in the pan good results or fiddled results, consistency etc.

The fact is of course that, rightly or wrongly, 'the south west' is by its smallest definition (Devon and Cornwall) a huge area encompassing 4 LEAs. If you add in Dorset and Somerset too then ..... It's impossible to generalise. About the only things one can say with confidence are that the grammar school mentioned above is by any criteria one of the best schools in the country and it it is better than all the private schools in the south west whatever definition you use to draw the geographical limits.

And this in turn shows that the generalisation in the OP is likely wrong and would at the least need some kind of geographical context in order for it to stand a chance of being correct.

Well you have done what I said you would, turn things round until you present a tissue of lies. So I was right about that.

To correct this for those who do not know and havent read:

a) I said my views were my experience and opinion in so far as that could be evidence

b) I didn?t mention the SW. I didn?t even comment on Exeter. I answered the question that was asked about Plymouth

c) For those who do not know, Exeter School and Maynards are selective independents in Exeter I was talking about state schools as was the questioner.
d) I was up to speed on the process in Plymouth and I told you to check the web site because it clearly says there that things changed this year (2012) - and I had said that.
e) as for naming grammar schools. The Plymouth ones are mediocre as far as grammar schools go. The outstanding one which you haven?t named is a super selective and its outside on the north of Exeter (where I said it was possible to get such an education). I repeat the black hole south and west of Exeter to Truro

I do not see why I have to be attacked for admitting I chose to send my DC's to an independent rather than face the local schools or Plymouth local authority schools and their social problems and issues (as we came here too late to get places in the grammar schools). I am not justifying my money spent. I have said I pay for good behaviour and experienced teachers which are both things I will not get in Plymouth schools or the local comprehensive where we live. I did not send them to Exeter because it was too far and one of those schools named by metabilis is an all girl?s school and so my DS would not have been admitted. I chose my school based on my family needs and availability.

Just goes to show how mealy mouthed posters will not deal with the issues and want to change the goal posts to suit their views and make themselves look big and good and justify their own positions.

Xenia you are spot on and it works both ways. Some school retain their good reputations by fiddling results or intakes and others like some of those in Plymouth change their names to confuse everyone but their intake is still the same with all its problems and they still get the same poor results.

Schools are not about teachers. They are about the pupils and the community they belong to. A deprived community will have deprived children. A community with social problems will have social problems in its schools.

To get away from that you have to pay and that is just a fact. One I know you have said many times. I am not going to be mealy mouthed about admitting it. Some teachers would have more of my respect if they did the same. I am fed up of lies and mistruths and deceptions and changing the topic.

@Sohia you said There is an educational black hole between north of Exeter and Truro You also mentioned Devon in general (and Torbay). You did not restrict your comments to Plymouth alone (and anyway. Stover is not in Plymouth). You started attacking Yellow and myself for 'coming out' as being from 'down here' after we both responded to a post from another poster (exotic ). You have several times, in your rather hysterical posts, accused us, basically of lying. Well, if you want to believe that we are both lying about living down here and coming from croydon (which is a bit of a coincidence, I grant you) then that is of course your (rather bewildering) prerogative.

That fact remains that Yellow has had or is still having 7 kids going through the education system in Devon, and I have 3. I think between us we have a reasonably good idea of its strengths and weaknesses. Particularly in the light of the fact that our own (disparate) backgrounds mean that we know from a good education.

Ladies, there is no need for handbags at dawn here.

Metabilis, I am not convinced you have demonstrated that Sohia's "black hole" does not exist. On your admission Exeter has one decent comp and an FE college with diverse results, and can only give me two independent schools, which amounts to not very good in my speak.

I am not sure why its causing such dispute when in fact you both seem to be indicating the same and thereby agreeing.

I suppose I'm simply coming from the fact that sohia offered this as 'evidence' of the poverty of education in the SW, which is a non starter

Fact or opinion? She offered an opinion as I can see.

So, out of curiosity, where abouts in Devon are you?

Metabilis - where in Devon? Its a big place. I used to holiday there as a child, on the North coast.

Could you lose the patronizing tone, Jabed?