The best Independent schools generally take the highest qualified teachers?

[Hamishbear]

It might be obvious to many that the most academic schools insist that their teachers have an outstanding degree from one of the best universities but it wasn't to me.

For example if you want a job in Maths at Guildford High school allegedly you need a first in Maths from a well regarded university. You obviously need to be an outstanding teacher in the fullest sense too.

So do the elite schools usually have the best teachers? I suppose it stands to reason that there is more competition for jobs at schools that have a fantastic reputation?

It works both ways. People send their kids to the grammars from quite some distance away. Plymouth is like any city, there are good bits, there are bad bits. There are far far far worse places in the UK. Far far worse. There are also better places.

I am not Plymouthian. I am Cornish. I was educated partly in Cornwall and partly in Plymouth because my parents moved there. I live just outside of Plymouth now and my DH works there. So my opinions probably will not count here.

In my opinion, there isn?t a single good school in Plymouth. There isn?t a single good place to live in Plymouth. It?s very poor and very deprived everywhere, even on the outskirts. Some places might be more pleasant than others.

It has a grammar school system but DC?s from all over S.E Cornwall as well as Plymouth will compete for places there. It also has a "comprehensive" sytem. However, if you choose to put your DC into the 11+ they risk the possibility of missing out on their first choice or catchment comprehensive school and will end up in the very poor schools, sometimes miles away, which have lots of anti social problems. If the good schools are not good, you can imagine how bad the others are. Comprehensive schools also tend to be "catchment" in that you go to your nearest if you can get in and that is why you might choose to not sit the 11+.

Many more well heeled people live outside in SE Cornwall or South Hams where schools are catchment but even there schools are not really good. I have been amazed recently that some of these schools were rated "outstanding? by Ofsted and I know they are not good schools at all. They are full of behaviour issues, vandalism and drugs. One school has an outstanding Ofsted yet half its pupils are on ASBO's in town. Go figure that.

There isn?t much choice of independent school either, unless you travel a long way, send you child to board etc. Then the schools are not the best in the country although I would say, stripping away the selection, and parental income etc. they are better than the local authority schools. You pay for good behaviour, work ethic, more experienced teachers and competitive sports and other provision.

Plymouth grammar schools are average as far as grammar schools go. Torbay are slightly better but you have to go to Exeter and North of that to find better schools (eg Chudleigh or Churston grammar) as those have parents with higher socio economic backgrounds.

So, you have to balance between choosing a school which is either poor or poorer and has lots of social issues or one which is independent and reasonably near or you have to send your DC a long way and if they are day pupils they are tired or they have to board.

It?s not easy. I speak from real knowledge of these schools. I am not talking league tables or ofsted reports.

TD went to one of the best outside of the grammar schools which tells you a lot. If he was bullied there, he was not going to be accepted anywhere else exceptone where he would have been far worse off. Of course there will be someone along who will want to argue because they have their DC in one of those schools I have said are cr@p.

In my experience and opinion, it isn?t your school that makes you successful but your school can be a factor in making you unsuccessful.

That fits in with my understanding. I had friends who worked there-they lived in Cornwall. I have other friends who are moving there shortly and they are going to live much further out in Devon. Both lots have children, so schools were their first priority.

Ofsted is useless except as a very rough guide.

Not sure how " if you choose to put your DC into the 11+ they risk the possibility of missing out on their first choice or catchment comprehensive school and will end up in the very poor schools" works - surely if you don't get allocated your first choice, it makes it neither more nor likely that you will be allocated your second choice - unless this area has a different admissions system to the rest of the UK, schools generally have no knowledge of where you put them on the list.

That used to be the system bread but not any more. It was relevant where the second choice was an oversubscribed comp. Those who sat the 11+ and didn't get offered a place often missed out with the comp, by not having put it as first.

Confused, Yellowtip - do you mean the OP refers to the old system, or my post does?

Certainly, AFAIK, what I describe is the system now and has been for some years.

sohia raises an issue I have with that area too.
Lots of middkle class people think they will escape London and bring their chidlren up down there. Lovely for the parents and quite fun for small children who can play around on beaches but they are not really thinking how will my child get a decent education and jobs when the time comes. It might be selfish decision by the parents. Whereas were they in Reading or even Watford or closer into London they would have a huge number of good schools in all sectors to choose from and probably better career prospects for their children.

You can get a perfectly decent state education in the West Country-you just have to do your homework. It wouldn't take you long to find out that Plymouth is a place to avoid.

I meant the OP was out of date for Plymouth bread, not you.

Not everyone in the SW downshifts though Xenia. Some poor mugginses are here anyway and have neither the money, opportunity or the least desire to move up to Reading or London. If that happens to be their lot :(, then the thing to do is to be dextrous with opportunities really. I know many, many students from this area who have gone on to win glittering prizes elsewhere. They'll be giving the London kids a run for their money having had a nice beachy life too :). Moving to London isn't a panacea for all educational ills, far from it.

Yes you can get a 'perfectly decent' education down here

The fact is while in my heart I still wish DD1 was at my old school (you can take the girl out of Croydon but you can't take Croydon out of the girl) it is undeniably true that the school she is at here is significantly better. And my old school was and is absolutely brilliant. But this school, with completely no nuns, is better :(

Xenia is right people do come down the S. Devon and Cornwall to escape London. That adds to the deprivation sometimes because it inflates the house prices as they can pay for the better areas and homes here and locals are left out.

But it?s not the only problem. If you have children you do need to think very carefully about coming to this area. I do not agree with metabilis3 or yellowtip that it is possible to find a good school here. Interests me how suddenly they have come out as being from this area - yet when @jabed was asking they were quiet.

I came here because I am from here. DH is Plymouthian. Our families are here and we both knew how bad the schools were, but there was a window in which my DH could move his job and continue his career and it is now, so we decided to come and knowing the situation with the schools we knew we would have to find an independent school. I have been bad mouthed for my choice of independent school, as well as for mentioning some of the problems that exist in Torbay, Paignton and Plymouth and its surroundings.
We came from the affluent SE and there are good schools in state and independent there. There is a lot of choice. You cannot compare the schools.

There is an educational black hole between north of Exeter and Truro if you come down the South coast. On the North coast things are a little better. Even then, you have to be careful.

I would challenge anyone to name schools that are any good at all. I know people think they are good sometimes because they are the best they have seen. They have nothing from up the line to compare with. I have been round them all, we did our homework and we know all the short falls. The things they don?t tell you in the prospectus or let you see at open days etc.
I would say to anyone, don?t come unless you are retired, do not have children and have a good source of income to live off.

I can agree with something that Xenia says for once-and that it isn't always for the best to take your DCs to a 'nice' part of the country. Lovely rural, seaside places are quite likely to have a significant drug problem for example-due to bored teenagers. I think that you would be hard pushed to find a really good state school between Exeter and Truro.

I'm talking about migration to the SW generally, not Plymouth specifically. I'm nevertheless cynical about what some independents claim to offer.

@sohia Since I have directly engaged with you in the past on your many threads about education in the south west and in particular about Stover school I'm rather suprised you didn't twig that I live in the south west. I certainly don't come from here. I come from Croydon. Again something I have been perfectly open about on MN.

You clearly did not do your research if you think there are no good state schools in Devon. Perhaps you mean there are no very good state schools within an hour or so of Plymouth and there I would be more sympathetic, except that the Plymouth grammars don't seem prima facae to be 'bad'. Not great but not bad. But there is much more to Devon than Plymouth and the South Hams.

However this is completely off the topic of this thread except for the fact that Devon is one of those areas where the best school in the county is a state school not a private school, despite the fact that there are some strong private schools in the area. Yet the best state school is better than them. And the best comps are better than many of the 'second tier' private schools. Which is an interesting fact in the context of this thread.

Isn't it amazing how many people suddenly seem to be experts on state education in the south west. FYI there is one very decent comp in Exeter, the FE college gets an incredibly diverse range of results but at the very top end, serves those students well so far as I can see (every year several get into Oxbridge). The Torquay Grammars while not top rank when considered nationally are still pretty good, the kids I know who have gone to those schools have all done very very well, several of them have gone to Cambridge (none to Oxford. Statistically a bit weird but since it matches my own bias I'm not fussed). I don't know anything about the Plymouth grammars except their reported results and those seem again solid grammar school standard levels.

Maybe I didn?t twig Metabilis3 because nothing you said seemed to have any ring of truth in it. Even now you are economical with the truth there (that best state school is a highly selective grammar school outside of Exeter). It seemed totally made up in my experience. You are still not being honest in my opinion. Yes, this is off topic. Do not think this is worth continuing.

Metabilis 3 -from Croydon and knows all about this area? My DH was born here. We have family here. I have lived here. I came from Cornwall. There are things in heaven and earth a Croydon girl cannot know - and she clearly does not. Yeah. Forgive me I need to fetch a bucket of salt from the kitchen
I am not going to argue further.

I've lived here for 16 years. Croydon is definitely better. People from there are much more polite.

I grew up in Croydon too sohia. The fact that you were born here doesn't necessarily mean that you know more about the current state of education in the SW. I'm surprised you didn't know about the way places are now allocated for instance.

I find sohia's assertion that you have to have grown up somewhere to know about its educational prowess. I grew up in Shropshire, but I know close to bugger all about its schools. I live in Gloucestershire and know a fair amount about schools here.

My friend's DS went to Oxford from Torquay Grammar school.
My brothers had to change schools when my parents moved to the west country-my parents were not impressed by the school choice.

Just realised I didn't finish my sentence... I find sohia's assertion bizarre. That's what I intended to say.

It is bizarre-being born in the area means nothing-you might have a good knowledge and you might not-exactly the same as someone who moved from outside the area.

Yellowtip - in Plymouth the changes to the system have been made this year
(As in 2012.) Go to the Plymouth council website and see.

I was actually talking about TD at the time and explaining why he may not have gone to GS but that is by the by.

It?s still the case in Plymouth that if you do decide to sit the 11+ you may find that you cannot be allocated a place in your local comprehensive, especially if it is likely to be oversubscribed. All schools in Plymouth have priority according to their feeder primaries and the area which they serve. If you sat the 11+ things were different and you were told point blank you would not get into a local school in your area as places were allocated before 11+ results came out. The 11+ is not compulsory in Plymouth (if you are from down here, you will know) .I went through this last year when I brought my DC's down here. That?s why we chose to live out of Plymouth. It didn?t matter where I planned on living; I was likely to be offered places for my DC?s in one of two schools as they were the only ones with places.

My other choice was Plymouth College as an independent in Plymouth as it?s the only one. The next nearest independents were in Tavistock (too far from me here) and Stover (which I chose).

Where I may have the advantage over you Croydon types is that I know the history of the schools. I may have spent some time in the SE but I am still local. I know what their origins are and I know what their catchments really are. In Plymouth, schools change names and status regularly (like being academies etc) but they don?t change their spots in terms of what they are.

I do not have as much knowledge concerning independents. Certainly Stover was a new one on me. I had never heard of it and so I asked about it. I began to wish afterwards I had not. I have my concerns about Stover but they are not the ones given by posters here. I was happy with the choice when I made it. My DC's are happy and are doing well there. My concerns are more to do with changes going on there at present.

But my choices are very limited because the other independents are worse and my local comprehensive is a disaster area. As I said before, a school does not make your DC successful but it can cause them to fail.

This is now well off topic.