The best Independent schools generally take the highest qualified teachers?

[Hamishbear]

It might be obvious to many that the most academic schools insist that their teachers have an outstanding degree from one of the best universities but it wasn't to me.

For example if you want a job in Maths at Guildford High school allegedly you need a first in Maths from a well regarded university. You obviously need to be an outstanding teacher in the fullest sense too.

So do the elite schools usually have the best teachers? I suppose it stands to reason that there is more competition for jobs at schools that have a fantastic reputation?

So Jabed do you think the children in that rural backwater who had the perception that their dads were off 'fighting Islam' shouldn't have been disabused of that perception? If there aren't any Muslims in the vicinity, do we relax and sit back and not mention them, hoping our parochial little pupils won't ever have to meet one and can carry on believing Islam is a thing you fight?

So Jabed do you think the children in that rural backwater who had the perception that their dads were off 'fighting Islam' shouldn't have been disabused of that perception?

No, but I think there was a way to dealwith it and a way not to deal with it. I think the RE teacher got it wrong ( and so did the LA RE advisor , as in the end that was the reason he left).

I read a brilliantly written article by a PGCE student (about her PGCE year) and can't remember the details. It's relevant to some points recently made - she was Italian (?) with an Italian double barreled surname and had a first class degree from Cambridge. Does this ring a bell with anyone? Be grateful for a memory jog re: her name.

Jabed - you do realise that you come across as completely out of touch? That OFSTED would be likely, under the new framework, to find you unsatisfactory?

Positive language, engaging students, giving them a rounded view of the world (eg that Islam exists) - these are all good things.

Perhaps the solution is for you to volunteer to mentor NQTs. Apparently they would learn a great deal from you.

jabed, you obviously have no experience of Watchfield Primary, a 'rural backwater' school with an off the scale number of serving forces parents, and an off the scale number of children of foreign serving military, including those from many muslim countries, and those where many of the parents have served.

i love that forces children are so sensitive. my three forces children seemed to get on quite well with our neighbours from iraq. the number of languages spoken in the school and the esl support necessary made me a little nervous, but the forces children from all over the world received a fantastic and truly multi cultural education for the duration of their posting.

maybe you should give them a call and visit?

i know that's truly off topic, but worth mentioning. the 'fighting islam' thing is just bonkers.

ET - on the contrary , Ofsted ( or ISI in my case) recently found my teaching outstanding FWIW. The school are also happy with it as are my pupils, two of whom have made a point of ensuring it was publically known and rewarded(which is a bit embarrasing but still I was very chuffed, they thought so)

"Coming across" here as being out of touch is not necessarily the same as in real life. It may be just an age thing ET or a cultural thing.

But enough about me. :)

MWITA - I was just stating what happened at my last school. You appreciate I did not give details because I would not want them recognised. I did say " there was a lack of sensitivity" - that should be enough to tell you there was trouble and the LEA sent in their men at the top with the results I described.

Now, lets leave it at that, since it was only an anacdote and I am not about to uncover anyone for you.

Perhaps the solution is for you to volunteer to mentor NQTs. Apparently they would learn a great deal from you

I no longer work in that school. I left because I wanted to teach to my full abilities and I couldnt do that there. We do not have any NQT's in my current school. Its experienced staff only - and staff who remain loyal to the school too :)

You missed the point of my comment, that it isnt always those of us who are clever chaps with good qualifications who are the poor teachers.

Jabed - what a surprise - along with your colleagues all coincidentally having trained at the 2011 top four training institutions.

I was referring specifically to OFSTED and the new inspection framework, which I expect you have no knowledge of, since the "evidence" you present of your teaching style and the requirements of the new framework definitely do not match up.

Incidentally, from the ISI guidelines:
*"10. Will inspectors give individual lesson grades to headteachers?

Inspectors make a judgement about the quality of teaching in the school overall, this judgement is based on a number of factors of which lesson observation is only a part. They will not discuss individuals or divulge individual lesson grades."*

So either your inspector went against the rules, or you are lying.

Given how pompous you get about riff raff and oiks and poor standards, jabed, I'm always surprised how poor your spelling and grammar are. I wouldn't say anything to anyone who made less of a big deal about standards and so on, but it does surprise me.

*Incidentally, from the ISI guidelines:
*"10. Will inspectors give individual lesson grades to headteachers?

Inspectors make a judgement about the quality of teaching in the school overall, this judgement is based on a number of factors of which lesson observation is only a part. They will not discuss individuals or divulge individual lesson grades."* *

Yeah, except our HT couldnt help but congratulate folks and when there is only one person in a dept who got seen, or in some cases only one person in a dept at all, its pretty easy to suss it!

But more important to me was the pupils accolade. I am really rather quietly pleased about that.

ET I am not aware of having put any lesson plans here so I find it hard to understand how you can have any "evidence" of my teaching style. So you have either made big assumptions or you are not being entirely truthful with that comment in suggesting you know how I teach.

Hamish - you are not thinking of Katharine Birbalsingh are you?

Jabed - purely going by what you've said - your disdain for things like positive language, using new research to enhance your teaching style and engaging students.

You are universally insulting about "young" teachers and their newfangled ideas.

So I infer that you are an old-fashioned chalk and talk teacher - you criticised a colleague for being "active" in her lesson, suggesting that you are not active.

I can't find what the ISI look for in lesson obs - it's not readily available on the website, which is a shame, as I was genuinely interested in how it would compare to the new OFSTED framework for inspection.

You are not about to uncover anyone for me?

If I understood that remark, I'd reply, honest.

I loathe the whole teacher training thing tbh. It put me right off having a bunch of 'two e' offers over twenty years ago, so I can't take part in teacher training/ standards threads without wondering quite how badly wrong we've got it. I'm assuming you're of the same generation.

maybe you should give them a call and visit?

Why would I want to do that MWITA? I had nothing to do with the incident I mentioned. I recounted what happened. I cant see how my visiting this school would do anything for anyone. Maybe the RE teacher I was talking about would benefit from it? But then he doesnt teach anymore.

I really cannot see your point - except to have a pot shot.

ET - can I draw your attention to how I put "positive language" in inverted commas? As I did several other things. Maybe its not my disdain , but a reflection on how it was being used?

Maybe. But I have seen no evidence of any willingness to embrace new techniques. I doubt you even know what OFSTED are after these days.

Er, no. You seemed to have strong opinions about what happened in that situation, and I thought you might find it interesting. No pot shot intended. Thought it might give you something to compare to. no skin off my nose.

Feel got at if you fancy it, your choice, free world and all that.

I was, however, a leetle put out about your assumptions regarding forces children. thought you might like to know how it works ideally with forces kids. Obv my mistake.

purely going by what you've said

But I have said nothing about my teaching.

your disdain for things like positive language, using new research to enhance your teaching style and engaging students.

You are misinterpreting my somewhat sceptical views of " new" approaches because in fact most are very old, and many have failed once already. I am always open to things that work.

I always try to engage my students. Clearly the uptake in my subject at A level suggests it works. My results might also have something to say about my effectivness too. But again, I have never mentioned either in any detail. I have never said anything about my own teaching style

Its all your assumption.

You are universally insulting about "young" teachers and their newfangled ideas

I have not been universally inulting about anything. I just related something that happened and how it did not work when they used it . This was largely to contrast with the comments being made about teachers in independent schools who have high levels of qualification, which has been universally (?) condemned here as making them poor teachers

So I infer that you are an old-fashioned chalk and talk teacher - you criticised a colleague for being "active" in her lesson, suggesting that you are not active

No, you didnt infer anything, you assumed. I criticised her active lesson only because it was criticised - it was a statement of what happened.

I have never given any indication of how I teach. I am still not going to do so. Suffice to say my style is engaging and effective according to the pupils at my school. :)

Have a nice day.

Er, no. You seemed to have strong opinions about what happened in that situation, and I thought you might find it interesting. No pot shot intended. Thought it might give you something to compare to. no skin off my nose

No, I have very stong opinions about over promoting ineffective, under qualified and inexperienced teachers. Which was the point I made. I also have strong opinions about the general view expressed on this thread that those of us who are well qualified are by definition poor teachers.

I apologise about the comment on taking pot shots. I am tired of some others trying it and took it out on you. Sorry.

I was, however, a leetle put out about your assumptions regarding forces children

I made no assumptions about forces children. I just related what happened.

Jabed - you are unwilling to share your teaching style. Why? I would happily share details of my teaching. You are ridiculously defensive, which, IMO weakens your argument, as opposed to strengthening it. You make various assertions, and then refuse to back them up with specific information.

You come across as someone who doesn't care what current research suggests, and isn't remotely interested in how educational practice has moved forward. You have your way of doing it, and you are sticking to that.

I repeat - are you aware of what OFSTED currently expect to see in lessons?

"general view expressed on this thread that those of us who are well qualified are by definition poor teachers."

I think you'll find that the general view expressed on this thread is that a first from Oxford does not necessarily create a good teacher, not that "those of us who are well qualified are by definition poor teachers".

I, for example, and very well qualfied, yet I am a very good teacher.