Scottish Universities a tad posh ....

[TalkinPeace2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18317093

St Andrews admitted 13 students from deprived areas out of a total student body of 7370

well yah !

Edinburgh's a funny place. I want there as did DP and we both still have some involvement / interaction with students through work and volunteering.

My experience was that the main campus had a definite 'yah' slant, with plenty of posh sounding (but not often as well off as they appear) students from the home counties. There were certainly plenty of wealthy students and they did tend to travel in packs as the others couldn't afford their preferred social spots

The science and engineering campus had a very different ethos. I think the wealth / background differences were less pronounced on that type of course.

I went to art college in Edinburgh and ended up sharing a flat with an " honourable " , a bishops daughter, an admiral's daughter and met many nice yahs, the arty ones tend to pretend to be less posh than they are. The peers daughter tried to keep it a secret!

@Bonsoir - or, you could out yourself. I work in the City when I'm not traveling hither and yon. In a traditional profession that has massive international firms. So that narrows it down to two fields and I'm certainly not getting any more specific than that. What do you do? For whom do you work? And how are you direclty involved in recruitment in the UK given that you live in France? I note that after you made a comment about large international businesses (not specifying any particular sector but by implication including all of them in your generalisation), and after I had pointed out that I work for one such and your statement was wrong for mine, you continued to claim that I was wrong even though I had identified myself as working for such a firm. So I'm very keen to know more about your credentials.

Actually, no, strike that. It really should not be any concern of mine what you believe and whether or not you tell other people what you believe. If a faceless person on the Internet who I will never meet wants to be rude about my professional knowledge then more fool me for reading the thread in the first place. I shall let you all discuss what you like in peace without the annoying presence of someone who actually is involved in recruitment bothering you. :)

Yes, come on Bonsoir, in what area of rcruitment would the fact that an applicant had graduated from Durham or Exeter mean that s/he would be rejected outright? That would be one wacky industry, for sure.

As an English parent with European-born parents myself, and therefore entiled to an EU passport as well as a UK one, I have suddenly developed a great fondness for sending my dcs to Scottish unis - as my dcs will be entitled to EU passports and therefore pay no fees. Which is rather appealing.

With 3 dcs that's about 100K saved - should pay for a good few car journeys or even flights to visit.

I always believed Edinburgh was Scotland's equivalent to Oxbridge - am I wrong?

St Andrews looks rather posh but for a free uni education then I'd rather that than an English second-rater.

Well I'll out DH and say he works in the law. Huge international firm.

And he has toddled off today having weeded through his CVs. The ones still standing who will get an interview include a fairly big spread of universities actually. More than I'd have thought.

To be fair though, the HR dept have done a pre-weeding session taking out anyone wihtout a decent degree from a decent uni.

So my potential list could give an indication of where currently it is hardest to get into and then you can assume the best people go there as it's hardest. However that does not factor in what old fashioned recruiters may think, their prejudice or whatever that might be. I suppose roughly we all know what are better places than others. there will not be a Scottish university on the big six list someone mentioned above for example so it may be free fees for some but it might then be harder to get some jobs. On the other hand if you go to a reasonable place and are best in your year, first, prizes, lots of good outside stuff (and the right accent which might in part be why Exeter is liked by some employers - and I am not suggesting Exeter is useless, much better than the ex polys nad often a second choice for those who may not get into Oxbridge, Durham, Bristol etc) and get good work experience then that will all be helpful.

Anecdotally again, but at a recent family event a couple of younger relatives involved in recruiting for London based professions, both said that the volume of graduate applications was so high this year that for the first time the initial filter had been Oxford/Cambridge/Imperial and LSE. This obviously did not mean that there would not be good candidates coming out of other institutions, and indeed both admitted that they themselves would not have met current criteria. Just that the graduate job market was so tough that their firms had to limit the numbers they interviewed.

I also heard of another boy selecting a non-RG university over Cambridge, because the particular applied science department was very highly thought of by employers. I would be surprised if many employers now select on "snob" value alone. However if HR departments are inundated, they will want to filoter somehow even if it means sifting out the quirky or the rough diamonds, and more sadly, those who have chosen to save money by going to their local University.

It's bound to be more multi-layered than that. In certain niche industries there are pockets of excellence in universities not generally on the wanted list. And the reverse holds good too: some Law departments, for example, in otherwise very competitive universities, are the poorer relations and HR departments will be very aware. Then of course, a Law department might be in the ascendant one decade and not the next: as with schools, leadership matters. Nothing can be cut and dried, simply broad brush and generalised. In terms of Xenia's list, the same university such as Durham is asking for A in History from Historians and an A for English but if you whizz up to the Science Site you won't on the whole need anything like that to get in.

Needmore, that is so in difficult times simply because of the volume of applicants. On her assessment day in about 5 years ago for a job my daughter was the only one not Oxbridge (she went to Bristol). She still got it but it does illustrate the competition. On that link I did above to one barrister chambers I got bored and stopped checking when 100% of the first few were Oxbridge.

There are lots of different jobs though. Even so I think the BBC, journalism and loads of things start with Oxbridge and work down.

I don't think anyone recruiting from Oxbridge is recruiting on snob value but someone recruiting below that level might if their customers are the rich buying art works want someone with an accent that goes with Exeter rather than Middlesex poly although I suppose they could use school attended if they wanted to vet by accent or do the usual telephone interview that is common today to weed out those whose accent would not fit in or you just don't like the sound of. One recruiter recently got excited when one of my daughters talked about skiing as if that has anything to do with the job at all although I suppose it might if there are work and customer entertaining ski trips and you're trying to match one sort of person with another.

breadandbutterfly I think eligibility is based on residence, so you would need to live in the EU outside England not just hold a non-UK EU passport?

Xenia, have things changed so much, I know several people ( admittedly, clever ), who got jobs with the big four accountancy firms despite going to Scottish universities that wouldn't make your list. Some of then even went to state schools and had a non RP accent.

I also know someone who has a conditional place for medicine at Edinburgh, she has to get BCC in her advanced Highers. I hear one thing on Mumsnet and another in RL.

Lots of graduates get jobs from places other than Oxbridge. It just depends what sorts of jobs you want. The bottom line at the moment though is many many cannot get any kind of job in anything including bar work amnd even Oxbridge graduates because of the recession.

It is not just the place of study that determines employability. Degrees in some subjects increase employability in lucrative professions a lot more than others. Better a degree in Economics than a degree in English...

Sorry Xenia , I know that much of what you say makes a lot of sense it's just that I can think of many exceptions to your rules ( including a friend who earns @£ 1/2 million with bonuses despite breaking most of your rules.

I can't help but react when what you declare would mean almost all my friends carefully nurtured and well educated children are wasting their time ( well apart from my neighbours son who is at Imperial), you are exacerbating my slight natural (Scottish ) chippyness.

I think one of the reasons why the number of acceptable universities gets ever narrower, is that the number of applicants coming from overseas has increased beyond imagination.

If you have candidates applying from all over the world, then your average UK graduate needs to stand out.

In my day admittedly back in the Dark Ages St Andrews was part of the cream milk round and a number of friends got jobs as trainees for the (at the time) Big Eight accountancy firms and I got one of the senior management trainee positions for ICI :)

If you were at a university wasn't on the milk round of a company you were interested in, it was still worth applying as they would still consider you - you'd just have to travel to one of the "milk round" universities if they did give you a first interview.

A cursory look at LinkedIn suggests that recent St Andrews' graduates are still getting positions with "good" law practices and investment firms (if that's your criterion of success - it wasn't mine).

word f is right about foreigners. When I was looking at those junior barristers lots were from a abroad or also been to Harvard as well as Cambridge etc, best in their year in South Africa etc Presumably we might be likely to have an even bigger influx of good people from Spain and Italy (and already Ireland) as few jobs at home, not that there are many here.

Some of their CVs make you swoon don't they?

Edinburgh knows your are the first in our family to apply to university because you write it in your personal statement. Their admissions website explains that they take this into account and asks you to include the information if it applies to you.

The university is actually quite keen on widening participation, but a lot of people are put off even applying because they don't think they'll get in or fit in once they get there. There are a lot of very posh, 'yah' types on some of the courses but there are ordinary kids from state schools in Edinburgh (and not just gillespies/boroughmuir) there too. You can even get in with non-traditional qualifications and everything.

And I agree that Glasgow is ancient but really quite different from Edinburgh and St Andrews. It draws a lot of its students from Glasgow and the surrounding areas and is far less popular with the public school crowd.

I did some work up at Aberdeen. I liked the buildings there but don't know much about how that one is regarded.

I'm not as high flying as some of you but here's my two pennies worth: my DC can stay at home and pay no fees if they study in Glasgow. So they'll graduate with no debt. It makes sense that only those who can afford it would go to St Andrew's.

Also this this is terrifying re job prospects :(

Can you tell I didn't go to uni?! *this thread