state schools in london. did you rent in the catchment or know people who did?

[cheapandchic]

I have realised that where my home is positioned I most likely have no chance at getting into any of the schools that I want. I do not want to send my child to the school nearest me.

is it worth letting my house and moving closer? has anyone done this? how far in advanced to you have to do it? can you move out once that are in?

Unless you mean assessing everyone's academic ability and then sharing out the top group children, the bottom group children and the middle group fairly between all local schools creating an exactly equal mix of abilities in each but an absolute travel nightmare for most people??

Something similar happens in Greenwich. The schools have to take equal numbers of children in 5 or 6 different academic bands. So the catchment distance for someone in the 1st band may be different to someone in the 2nd and so on. Just to simplify life even further.........

Sorry, first paragraph is a quote from SchoolsNightmare. Forgot to do quotation marks.

SchoolsNightmare "I'm not sure academic ability is going to be a fair way to dish out places to 4 year olds or solve secondary school problems." Not perfectly fair, certainly, but would it not be fairer than the present situation where the ever-shrinking catchment areas of the most desirable state schools ensure that they become the preserve of the wealthy? And as for assessing four-year-olds: the prep schools do it. I should add that I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying.

Exactly schools:

That is my point. No one child is more deserving than another. How does someone "qualify under the admission rules more than me"?

Because I have moved to the area later than someone else, somehow I am less qualified or cheating??? That is ridiculous. I moved when I had children and realised that the school where I live is not great. So if a couple lived near the school before having children they are not cheating?

And whether I sell my current house or rent it is my choice. The rental market is better than the sales market. If I move back there or when is also my choice.

schoolsnightmare you are quoting the OP as saying she will rent out her "real home" (your quote marks) but I cannot see where she has written that.

"is it worth letting my house and moving closer?"

I understood that is what OP meant as well!

Moving to get into a better school- fine IMO
Moving short term to get into a better school, then moving back -wrong IMO. Depending how sought after the school is, you could lose your place by moving back out of catchment area anyway.
Why not just stay in the catchment area?

Did you not check the schools before you bought your house?

No. schools were not checked before moving into this house. It is my grandmother's house and she has kindly given it to me. She bought the house in 1975.

So now I am wondering whether it is worth letting it and moving closer. Honestly I did not mean for this to be some sort of moral question. I still do not see this as 'cheating'. And surely my 'real home' is the one in which my family lives. why does it matter how long I live there?

Also I did not necessarily mean move closer, then move back. I might move to even another house and carry on renting...I was just wondering how this whole process works.

Ahh OK nothing wrong with moving then, any way its all just other peoples opinions isn't it, as to whats morally OK? I do agree with people not keeping theirschool place if they deliberately rent for 6 months or a year then move back to their (normally) bigger, cheaper house. My very good friend was insistent that her DC went to the super posh (but state) outstanding school, so she lives in a small and eye wateringly expensive house, I live 2 miles away in a lovely big cheaper house and my DC go to a "good" but very normal school. We are both happy with our decision. Its different for you though, if there is only a crap school near you

Just one more thing, you need to declare the rental income to HMRC and pay tax if necessary. If you end up buying another property and living in it and keeping the one you inherited, you may be liable to capital gains tax if you eventually sell. My friends family were caught out on both counts and are still feeling the pain!

we didn't get into our ofsted 'outstanding' local school, which is 329 metres away! Strangely, given the catchment area is so 'small' there are a hell of a lot of parents that drive in the mornings, blocking up our tiny street with their 4x4s and nicking our parking spaces.

There is also a big block of flats behind the school that frequently has 'to let' signs...

I think it's shameful.

OP you asked questions about what was possible, and you got a lot of steam about cheating and karma, many of which seem to say more about their posters than what you're contemplating. Is this that different from choosing to learn brass instruments from age 5 to get music places? Or tutoring for super selectives? Some people just resent others getting what they don't, while others focus on what they can do themselves within the rules.

I don't know the answers to your questions, perhaps, also, the answers may not be general and are only sensible for specific schools. I've read previousy that school governors [who one would have thought know the system as well as any] have moved quite legitimately and got their honey pot school places, and then returned to their home after several years when all their children had gained entry. That was a few years ago.

However I can't help feeling in the end it's about timing. The longer you lived there before and continue to do so after entry, the less likely that DC will be asked to leave. A large number of children in state schools move home in year 7, almost always away from the school, into better accommodation, and stay at the school. Good luck whatever you decide, when you've looked into it properly.

thank you third hill.

Cheapandchic. Re your OP most councils need proof of your address, so council tax bill, gas etc they need to be less than 3 months old, so re timing you woul need to move in the summer to be there for application date, (can't remember when but think it's oct/nov).

You find out about places around Easter and then start school in September, it would be very foolish to move after offer but before start of school, so you would probably need to stay to nov/dec so knowing most rental are 6months or 1 year you would need at least 18 months.

My local highly oversubscribed secondary school sends a letter in July which has to be signed by the head teacher of your primary school to prove that you live in the address you applied from.

I will not get into the wrongs or rights of this but feel that many of the other posters have pointed out the legal status of this, which you do not seem to agree with, but it is the reality.

The only other thing to consider is if you are applying to a very oversubscribed school with a really small catchment area, other parents will judge you, you may not like it, or care, but you will have to live with it for a long time.

thank you soon sailing for answering what I was asking about. the facts.

I understand about parents judging or whatever...but from what I have already discovered just talking to parents and visiting schools is that all the other parents are very competitive and many of them are also "playing the system" or 'cheating' as some have said.

I have already heard of families pretending to be catholic, getting doctors notes to play up their mental and/or medical 'needs'. Another mother was claiming her child was special needs just because he was a late talker...even though by the time of entry into nursery he was absolutely fine developmentally. There is a family that has turned up at our own church with 4 year old twins and they have been taking the vicar to their house for dinner quite a few times...I can't help but wonder if they are trying to get into the school... Housing prices are inflated drastically in these catchment areas....none of this seems fair or correct. And I agree its not exactly an ideal system.

But at the end of the day, I do not want my children going to my local school, for various reasons and therefore I would like to move to a place where I feel happy about their education. If people are going to judge me on that I really don't care. I am sure that there are parents in these desired schools that have also done the same or worse tactics to get in.

I know Schoolsnightmare would dearly love the last word, but ...her fierce objection to this practice is making her spout nonsense.

People move all the time for all kinds of reasons. As long as it's a legitimate move (i.e. actually living at the place) and you're paying appropriate council taxes etc, there's nothing the school could legally object to. As to the idea that OP's DC school place would be taken away - that is ridiculous and untrue.

In my London borough there's insane competition for the good schools. I was luckily living in the catchment of the school my DC now attends. My next door neighbour rented the place next door to me for a year, was very upfront about it and went on to become the chair of the PTFA. Nobody "shopped" her. This is only one example, of which there are countless - and these are only the ones I know about.

My advice to you is: find out exactly the submission deadline of the reception form (ours was February before September intake - and we had our confirmation letters in May). Work backwards from the deadline date at least a couple of months (if only for your own sanity) so you're settled when you apply and have the council tax form etc. Stay put for at least a term, or longer if feasible. This could be as short as a year, or as long as you like.

Please ignore the shrieking on this post. Good luck to you OP.

SN is correct, and although the PTA chair is by no means unique, and some people can front it out - I know someone who did that and became a school governor - people need to be aware of what eh rules are to assess the risk, and act accordingly. In the case of the school governor, they could, and later did, easily afford fees if the scam did not work - not everyone is in that postion...

Below is a quote from my LA's current primary admission booklet. OP if applying in my area would need to declare her interest in other properties and prove that the rented address is her home.

^If you own or rent more than one property, you should state
this on your form. You will also need to provide proof of
residence and occupancy for the address at which your
child lives most of the time and is considered as the main
family home.
If you move into a property for a temporary period purely
for the purpose of trying to be nearer to a school, we will
use your normal, permanent residence for the purpose of
administering the application.
If it is discovered that you were offered a school place by
using an address of a second property, the offer is likely to
be withdrawn.^

and for the school best known for short term rentals..

^If you are making an application for XXXXX,
which has a designated priority area, you must provide a
copy of your tenancy agreement or a Land Registry
document if you live within the priority area. Your
application will be considered as outside of the priority area
if the required documents are not provided by the closing
date. If you rent your home, a signed rental agreement of
at least 12 months showing the start date of your tenancy
will be required. You and your child must still be living at
the address on the closing date for applications:
15 January 2012.^

The thing about that though, is that most rental agreements are for 12 months. You can give (2 months) notice to leave after 6 however.

all very interesting.

I do not of course want to be thrown out. I will probably stay 2 to 3 years. As we have always moved house every two years anyway. I don't see how they could kick me out because of that. And as I mentioned before we would probably move to another new place, hopefully buy a new property...we will see.

London schools are a nightmare! I hate it.

yes exactly. all the schools that I am trying to get into have a catchment of 0.1 to 0.2 of a mile!!