Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements

[tiffinboys]

Tiffin Schools (Boys & Girls) have issued their Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013-14. Boths Schools have decided to ignore pleas from the local community and opted to continue with Open Selection.

Though most of the grammar schools have catchment/proximity rules, some even going to the extent of denying applications to sit for their entrance test in breach of Grenwich ruling, Tiffins would continue open selection policies. Only handful of children from Kingston & surrounding areas get places in Tiffins. Most of the places go to the children living at very very far away places, eg. Harrow, Southall, Greenford.

Grammar schools from Bromley (St. Olave & Newstead Wood), Redbridge (Woodford County & Ilford County) or Barnet/Herts (DAO & Latymer) or Slough (Langley) would not allow out-of-catchment children to even apply for admission tests. Other schools like Kent grammars would only give places to children living near to the School. Some schools have most of the places for catchment area (Nonsuch, Wallington etc.).

This year, Reading grammars (Kendrik & Reading) and Chelmsford grammars (both boys & girls) have changed their over-subscription criteria from 100% open selection to 100% catchment and 80% catchment respectively.

It is high time that children from Kingston and surrounding areas also get level playing field. Until all grammar schools are 100% open selection, it is fair that some priority is restored for these children.

We have therefore proposed that Tiffins give 80% places on the basis of proximity to the Schools (or such other Centre point in the Borough, as previously proposed by the LA) to those children who pass the entrance tests. Other 20% may be given on open selection.

This proposal complies with Greenwich/Rotherham rulings. We are aware that it would take lot of persuation for the Governors of these school to accept this proposal. We call upon all parents from Kingston & Surrounding areas t write to the Tiffin Schools in support of this proposal and copy these to your local MPs and Councillors.

TGS is one of the top ten schools in whole of England. Is it? By what measure? The Sunday supplements?
I know a parent who's daughter went there and she hated practically every minute - came away saying that at least it was something you can put on your cv - not an isolated example either.
DS has friends there and many of the girls are far from happy with the pressure they are put under. This is common knowledge.
Neither of the Tiffins are as 'good' as you think they are, nor are the alternatives - the comprehensives as you refer to them - nearly as bad.

Last week one boy in DCs class at Tiffin was grilled and likened to a door stop - well that's hardly inspirational teaching is it?

I must say that my experience at TGS has made me think that the super selectives are not a healthy atmosphere for a lot of adolescent girls. I don't know how widespread the pressure is and I know girls at St Paul's etc who are also have high expectations put on them; but telling 13/14 year olds they have to walk away with 11 or 12 A/A* or they are failures is creating a problem.

@TGSmum. Precisely. How many barriers does a child need; how many opportunities to fail? And at so tender an age.
Interesting that Waldergrave Girls (86% A*-C inc maths and English GCSE) in Richmond Bourogh has elected to introduce a combined sixth form - apparently at the girls request.
Imho, would have been far better in my opinion had Tiffins gone this way and combined talents and aspirations post-16, instead of wasting money on separate endeavours.

oops, borough!

Venus & Adonis - the first production performed jointly by the girls and the boys of Tiffins schools apparently in 'living memory' - was an absolute triumph. There should be more interaction and collaboration between the two schools like this.

Quite surprised to read that. If girls are teaching themselves without teachers, then it is something parents should straight away take it with the Head Teacher and the head of the year.

Yes, that is a really good idea! Some girls do leave after year 11 because they would prefer a co-ed school or college. It could potentially offer a wider range of subjects.

I sometimes think the girls live in a hothouse bubble and need a more normal existence. There is a fair amount of unsisterly behaviour throughout the school. I for one would welcome it.

Tiffinboys - they are teaching themselves because the teacher is rubbish..the school do not want to know.

@zoffany: I am glad that your DC had found a better choice than Tiffin. Nothing like to be at school where kids are happy.

@TGSmum. ...the school do not want to know. Agree - this can be a problem; when a school climbs to the top of the league tables - 100% GCSE success - they can become unresponsive to concerns. Happens at TS also to an extent - quite frustrating. Like children, we parents should be seen but not heard.

Do you know how many at the Tiffin schools come from Kingston? It was just under 40% in <a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120504203418/education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SBU/b000807/index.shtml" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2008 but that's old data so it might have changed. The fact that it is a superselective is exactly the reason why Kingston's other schools do much better than Kent secondary moderns. There are more children getting A/A*s in English in the rest of Kingston's schools as at the grammars, but it's harder for individual schools to get those results without some sort of critical mass, e.g. having a good-sized top set. Results aren't the only reason why parents may prefer a comp to a grammar but I wouldn't want the Tiffin schools to wreck the balance that exists by creaming off more from Kingston/Richmond.

1. Yes, both Tiffin Schools gave their admission data upto 2012 entry. TS even published it on their website. This data confirmed that less than 30 children from Kingstom get places in each of these school.

1. Tiffins are not large schools and there are not 5 or 30 grammars in Kingston. The so called balance will not be disturbed. As it is, some go to grammars in other borough or some go to independents.

Tiffin Girls is only a couple of minutes walk from the Richmond "border" and lots of girls come from that direction in the 65 bus. As TGS is an academy it is theoretically more or less independent of the LEA. I think looking at it from the point of view of borough boundaries is quite misleading. Girls can be local but not within Kingston at all.

Current balance, not called

Yes, you are right. If you have seen the figures on 11+ forum, the figures for Kingston & surrounding areas (including Richmond & lot more) are much much lower than children from considerable distance and have decreasing trend since 2009.

I'm relieved at this decreasing trend, personally. I worked out from this Guardian tool and the Ebacc subject entries in the performance tables that there were more girls at Coombe Girls and Waldegrave combined getting A/As in English than at Tiffin Girls (you could quibble over As but I won't). And those schools were educating another 270 girls with other talents/interests on top.

Actually, did you mean 30 children from Kingston per school = 60 (23% of 260 places) or 30 in total? I know that 15 out of two Richmond primary schools got places for 2013 in the schools combined.

Sometimes parents turn down the offers in favour of private schools so there may be more offers than acceptances.

I am totally new to this thread, if I may just butt in and ask a question or two? What level maths and English are the children who are accepted? Are there any statistics on this? Just wondering if there is a point considering it for my youngest at all. He is just Y4 so we still have some time I think.

He was a 3c at the end of year 3, but I think we will be easier to see this year. He started Y2 straight from nursery in Norway, so I think it is pretty good to have caught up and reached "national average" in two years. He could not read at all, nor write at the beginning of Y2, so he has made a fast progress. We are just up in Wandsworth, so not that far away.

I don't think you can diss TGS results, girls have achieved 92% A/A* at GCSE for the last two years across the subjects. I think there are anomalies from year to year due to a poor teacher or exam boards cracking down and catching them out, I think English last year was an example as it was across the country.

Of course at most comprehensives you are going to find equally clever girls. TGS claim their girls are in the top 7% of ability. I think a lot of ambitious parents send their girls to TGS thinking there is something superior about the teaching but there isn't, I think most girls are motivated and keen to learn and there is not the overtly disruptive behaviour that comes from kids who don't - that is the main difference.

But over a third in Richmond/Kingston are reaching Level 5 in reading, writing and Maths combined and most are among the 4,000 who apply for 300 places or whatever it is.

I think even more people are entering the stage 1 test because they know if they are not successful they can put a good comp down as first choice. Last year second preference offers to the most oversubscribed schools in Richmond dropped from 15% to about 5% of the total, no doubt because two-thirds had already been rejected from Tiffin before they submitted their application. But you'd have to live very near the school to qualify for a second preference if rejected after the stage 2 tests. It's a risk I wouldn't want to take.

Re the level, difficult to say as DD went to a private primary with no SATS. All girls were level 8 in English and most level 8 in maths by the middle of year 9, so at least level 5 on starting the school.

I think KS levels are quite crude though. My daughter was identified by teachers quite early as G&T in music and literacy and the cleverest in her class, whether that is the effect of early labelling or whether she was genuinely more able I really can't say.

TGSmum no dissing, just making the point that there are lots of bright children everywhere working hard in whatever school they go to. My last point was that some parents don't even bother applying to grammars because the comps are really good.