Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements

[tiffinboys]

Tiffin Schools (Boys & Girls) have issued their Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013-14. Boths Schools have decided to ignore pleas from the local community and opted to continue with Open Selection.

Though most of the grammar schools have catchment/proximity rules, some even going to the extent of denying applications to sit for their entrance test in breach of Grenwich ruling, Tiffins would continue open selection policies. Only handful of children from Kingston & surrounding areas get places in Tiffins. Most of the places go to the children living at very very far away places, eg. Harrow, Southall, Greenford.

Grammar schools from Bromley (St. Olave & Newstead Wood), Redbridge (Woodford County & Ilford County) or Barnet/Herts (DAO & Latymer) or Slough (Langley) would not allow out-of-catchment children to even apply for admission tests. Other schools like Kent grammars would only give places to children living near to the School. Some schools have most of the places for catchment area (Nonsuch, Wallington etc.).

This year, Reading grammars (Kendrik & Reading) and Chelmsford grammars (both boys & girls) have changed their over-subscription criteria from 100% open selection to 100% catchment and 80% catchment respectively.

It is high time that children from Kingston and surrounding areas also get level playing field. Until all grammar schools are 100% open selection, it is fair that some priority is restored for these children.

We have therefore proposed that Tiffins give 80% places on the basis of proximity to the Schools (or such other Centre point in the Borough, as previously proposed by the LA) to those children who pass the entrance tests. Other 20% may be given on open selection.

This proposal complies with Greenwich/Rotherham rulings. We are aware that it would take lot of persuation for the Governors of these school to accept this proposal. We call upon all parents from Kingston & Surrounding areas t write to the Tiffin Schools in support of this proposal and copy these to your local MPs and Councillors.

I must say I have completely changed my view about grammar schools in comprehensive areas since my daughter started. Both my husband and I attended selective religious partly subsidised private schools at different ends of the world and we thought selective was the way to go.

Personally I think the future for TGS is either selective independent like LEH or comprehensive.

I agree MuminLondon..,

I know that's the theory but what confuses me is, looking at one oversubscribed school surrounded by three other oversubscribed comps near the Richmond/Kingston border:

295 first pref apps, 220 offers = 75%
337 2nd pref apps, 25 offers = 7%

Is that because most second preferences to that school sensibly applied for their nearest comp as first choice?

DS1 has just started Y2, but having been told multiple times over the summer that we should be thinking about secondary schools now, I have started doing some research

Call me naive, but I am genuinely shocked at the lack of choice in Kingston. There are theoretically 10 possible schools DS could attend...but by the time you strip out the under performing school, the RC schools and the girls' schools...we are actually left with 3. Including Tiffin. Which, as the original OP points out, is open to anyone who wishes to apply. I am actually really concerned now.

@Zoffany - you wrote
" Paradoxically, Kingston parents have more choice this year than ever before - we did not manage to secure a place at TS for DS2; yet received offers from three good/outstanding state secondaries, which left us effectively spoiled for choice - with difficult decisions to be made."

I am curious as to which schools you're referring as I just can't find them? Did you go outside the borough? Understand if you don't want to comment in public, but maybe you would PM me?

@muminlondon: my figures are based on 2007-2012 data provided/published by both Tiffin Schools. I also have 2013 data for one school and data for Kingston/Richmond data for another school. We are waiting for full 2013 data for both schools under FOI. Hopefully these would be available soon.

@HomeecoGnomist: perhaps zaffany means that if you live more towards Richmond, then Grey Court may be an option. Or if near Surbiton, Hollyfield may be an option, as they have a top stream which performs well and consist of mostly the pupil who are bright, but may have narrowly missed Tiffins entry. (note the emphasize on mostly)

If you live in rest of the Kingston borough, then your choice is Coombe boys, Southborough & Chessington Community.

the excellence of the options to the majority of Kingston children, such as my children, is as follows.

School: GCSE points, Ebacc, A-level points
Tiffin School: 442, 92%, 1168
Coombe boys: 359, 11%, 555
Southborough: 328, 9%, 545
Chessington: 314, 4%, 493

Tiffin Girls: 451, 79%, 1211
Coombe Girls: 364, 31%, 718
Tolworth Girls: 362, 18%, 693

Other than Tiffins, what are the real options in Kingston if your child is bright? Independent schools?

Tiffinboys - you've hit the nail on the head. There is no real choice, is there ...and with two boys who will overlap for 4 years at secondary school, independent schooling is just beyond our means (rofl at the idea that Kingston is packed with millionaires who can just pay up or move house to solve the problem)

We don't live on the Richmond side, so not sure anything there is an option.

I thought the primary school process was bad enough, but this is terrible. Please point me in the direction of any petitions that need support to change this system!

You cannot measure the worth of a school by exam statistics. The Ebacc is particularly misleading. Even at TGS some girls choose RS instead of history or geography and don't have the right subject combination. Exam results to an extent indicate how many bright in the sense of academic children are in a school - not much else.

A new school is opening next to TGS next year, which will no doubt ease some of the pressure on places. If TGS was to restrict entry to Kingston children only - though why should it as much of Richmond is equally close- the results would fall - not much point being a grammar then.

@HomecoGnomist: More local parents should write and you can write to the Governors of both Tiffin Schools and copy to your local MP and Councillors, demanding distance policy for both the Schools. The Schools would be reviewing their admission arrangements any time now. So your timely e-mail would be really helpful. I could pm you later if you want e-mail addresses.

@TGSmum: If exam statistics / league tables were plainly worthless, I doubt anyone would have travelled to Kingston from Harrow or Willesden or Kensington or Croydon or Southall or the rest of the country, leaving nearby 'good' and 'outstanding' comprehensives (and even other grammars) and causing 'brain drain' in their local schools.

Most grammars strike a balance between serving the local community and selecting the best of the best.

Sutton has too many grammar schools. It has always provided more secondary places than it has resident pupils but it affects neighbouring boroughs disproportionately. In 2010 its grammars imported 1,000 pupils from Croydon and nearly 500 from Merton. Subsequently their own comprehensives have suffered from imbalance. Even Sutton's 'good' comprehensives import middle class pupils from other boroughs. Disadvantaged pupils don't travel as far.

What is your view on the Thames being a natual barrier to Kingston catchment areas?

If you include Teddington Lock as a safe river crossing to school, which the Kingston borough does not accept at present, distances to Kingston schools for Teddington and Hampton Wick students would meet vicinity admission requirements.

HomeEco - there is now no restriction in Richmond by feeder schools if you live near the border, although most north Kingston primaries were actually linked by 2008 to Grey Court which is outstanding (48% Ebacc provisional 2013 results).

There is a new school from 2015. Coombe Boys is part of a federation with Coombe Girls with rapidly improving results. Southborough Boys got 38% Ebacc this year too.

The landscape is shifting fast.

@frequentflyer: Kingston LA now follows straight line distances as opposed to safe walking distance.

Extract form 2013 Kingston Secondary School Admissions.

(iv) Distance from home to school
If your application is likely to be considered under the distance criterion, try to consider
whether you live close enough to the school for your child to qualify for a place. The final
“cut-off” distance for admissions over the previous three years has been included (where
appropriate) on the individual school pages in Section 3.
However, please note that for entry in September 2014 onwards we are changing the
method of measuring home to school distances for all schools, to a straight line
measurement. Therefore, even if your address falls within the previous years’ cut-off
distances for a school, there is no guarantee your child will obtain a place there for next
September.

@muminlondon:

While it is good to see Kingston schools making improvements, there is long way to go. And is it necessary to reduce local children intake in Tiffins to improve results of other comprehensives? Seems to me that those ideologically opposed to grammars are running these admission arrangements.

I think that the Tiffin schools needs to look at what other grammars do to restrict their catchment which is LEGAL. The catchment needs to be what is a sensible distance for children to travel to school rather than focussing on the boundaries of the LEA. Having children travelling to the moon and back to get to school is bad for the child health and social welbeing. Places like Richmond, Hampton Wick, Teddington, Molesey are easily commutable for a child. However Greenwich is stupidly far way. The Tiffins schools would still be superselective if they only tested children who live in a 5 or 10 mile radius.

The Tiffins schools have academy status and are directly funded by the government. They are no longer under the kingston LEA. The two schools are there to eduate the super bright rather than Kingston children.

Sutton .... has always provided more secondary places than it has resident pupils but it affects neighbouring boroughs disproportionately. In 2010 its grammars imported 1,000 pupils from Croydon and nearly 500 from Merton. Sutton's 'good' comprehensives import middle class pupils from other boroughs. Disadvantaged pupils don't travel as far.

So either you are advocating Sutton should adopt local catchment or what! By the way, the figure you gave hardly mean 15-30 children per year in the grammar/partially selective/'good' comprehensives of Sutton, if we take that there would be atleast 10 schools in this category.

If disadvantages children don't travel as far, then LAs should look into the possibility of providing transport; not denying their local children admissions in the grammars or abolishing the grammars altogether.

@reallytired

I never advocated Tiffins for Kingston children only. Bright children from Kingston and surrounding areas (you mentioned just some of these) would be great.

Thank you tiffinboys. I will contact Kingston LEA on their straight line policy. I am not sure how they treat the river in this new policy.

tiffinboys I think we are in complete agreement. Children at superselective school have a special need and you need a reasonable pool of children to pick from to have a superselective.

If all children in the Kingston area with level 5s could get into Tiffins then it would stop being a superselective. The idea of a superselective is to challenge the truely gifted child and have an appriopiate curriculum.

"Surely the answer is to improve other local schools to give parents more choice?"

Kingston schools are generally good compared with the rest of the country. It is better to look at the progress that children make than league table positions. Not every school can be top of the league tables.

It is just a fact of life that these schools have less intelligent children than Tiffins because the best have been creamed off by the private schools and Tiffins. Most Kingston comprehensives have excellent teaching, prehaps better than Tiffins for the moderately bright (non gifted) child.

@reallytired

Quite right. The Tiffins would also need to look into the entrance tests. Working like mad for 2 years or more on NVR/VR is no sign of being super bright. TGS has taken a good step in conducting maths/English tests.