how did you know that the school your DC ended up at was the right one for them?

[mumat39]

Hello. We are fortunate to live in an area of Ofsted 'GOOD' schools for primary education. I have visited about 3 of them and just haven't had the 'gut' feel for them. In fact I don't think I really like any of them.

As a result we have also looked at a local indie school and although I had a better feeling about that one there are still issues, probably more to do with the principle.

My DD is so far showing signs of being very able and is good at picking things up quickly, often only needing to be told something once. The nursery she is at at the moment said that she is very bright but very sensitive. I was similar and kind of got lost in the state schools I went to. I was able therefore didn't need the support, when in reality I was able to learn by parrot fashion and never really knew how to and still don't know how to apply myself when the parrot fashion learning stopped working. That whole being ignored really has affected me my whole life and I just wish I'd left school a more confident person. I did okay in my exams, but it was more the self esteem issues I left with that I worry about.

DD is already a little lost where she is as she is in a class of quite a few unruly boys and this seems to affect her behaviour at home.

So my question is, if you really don't like the state options on offer, do you just go with the flow and hope for the best? Or do you fork out for the indie option and again hope for the best? Home schooling isn't an option. I'm getting to the stage where I feel like I need a break from being a stay at home mum so would be looking to get some part time work at some stage. Also, how do I know which school will support DD and DS when the time comes to bring out the best in them and ensure that they reach their full potential.

I'm asking this now as we hear back from the LEA about which school DD has a place at and I'd like to get my head sorted on this before then.

Please don't judge me on this. I have always been a state all the way type, but have been really underwhelmed by what's on offer so am very very. confused. I also am not convinced that the state options we have will be good for DD for the reasons I've mentioned.

Any advice would be appreciated but I really don't want to start yet another state vs private debate. Thank you.

sorry. I should have said we hear back from the LEA next week.
apologies for any other silly typos.

I think the gut feeling may be something you develop after having children go through the system, living in a neighbourhood a long time and meeting lots of people! I do understand about your experiences, I went to a very rough primary school and a horrific grammar and still have issues with anxiety etc to this day! I think schools are very very different to the way they were in those days (I am in my forties), and I don't think you can necessarily judge by your own experience.

My elder daughter sounds a bit like your DD, intelligent and sensitive and I put her into a private school in year 1 as she was allocated a large primary at 4.5 and absolutely hated it. She was bullied, had separation anxiety, the head had it in for us for being middle class, loads of things. However while the private was generally a nice place, and generally she is confident, the teaching was appalling. She got into a state super selective but that was because she is very intelligent. She was about 3 years behind in maths when she started.

DD2 was bullied at private school, received no support for her dyslexia and thrived when she went to state school in year 4. But that was a particularly outstanding primary.

If you have no money concerns, it sounds like you need to give yourself permission to go for the private school. Would it be an option to go and visit the state school you are allocated? Maybe speak to the Head one to one and speak to the teacher your DD will have next term about your fears and see what they say?

Honestly? To answer the question in your title - because the head cared enough, even when DS first visited the school, to make the time and space for him to become the first adult outside the family circle that DS had spoken to in months [selective mute, caused by anxiety at his first school.]. And because for the tour of the school which followed, the head stuck a hand out to each of my children, saying "X and Y, let me show you my school. I like it a lot, and am very proud of it. I hope that you like it too." He left me trailing along in his wake....

Have never regretted it. In many ways the school doesn't stand out from others in the area - big 2-form entry, good not outstanding Ofsted, big Victorian building, no playing field of its own though it uses the park - but everything they do, their entire philosophy, focuses on the children and what is best for each individual (not Ofsted, not results, not parents ... though those come along as a result of their focus on the children) - and that's why we chose it.

Marking my place :0)

My DSs school senior just felt right because I liked the teachers I met they didn't talk in some jargon filled language that I dont understand, they look me in the eye and treated me as an equal with the same objectives. I liked the the pupils I met and most importantly felt comfortable there.This feeling was then passed onto my DS who was 9 at the time he liked it too and so assumed that if I liked it and he liked it then it must be good. Four years later when he started at the school he went there with this feeling and it has proven to be what he/we thought.
I didn't ask about results or class sizes etc because I'd read the website and the guides etc before I looked at it. It was the feel of the place that told me it was right.

You don't. We chose based on the head, who then retired at the end of ds's second year at the school. The head was relatively young when they retired (early 50s) so no indication of it when we visited. New head was already at the school (for longer than the retiring head) and the school has gone downhill. Ds is moving schools to take up a scholarship but if he wasn't we would be moving him anyway.

The head at our favourite state school moved a year after ds would have started there and that school has deteriorated significantly too (new head there was an external appointment).

I was a state all the way person as well, but the schools near me are not good or even mediocre schools. I looked at other options such as moving to a different area, home schooling etc, but then went to look at a small independent school nearby. I absolutely loved it, and more importantly so did my dd. it took me a while to get my head round the concept of paying fee's, but finally came to terms with the fact that I'll be working my butt off for a few years. But, I am so glad I went with this school, dd absolutely loves it, she's settled in well, made lots of friends, loves the teachers and is doing well in class. I'm really pleased with it.

OP, what was it about the state schools that left you feeling "underwhelmed"? If your gut instinct is that your daughter is going to feel overwhelmed in any class of about 30 children and would be better off in a smaller class then it may be that the only way you can get that is to go private (unless there are any good small village schools at which your daughter would get a place). I guess the other key question is how difficult it would be financially for you to go private, eg would you still be able to enjoy a day to day standard of living similar to what you have now or would you have to make sacrifices that affect your day to day standard of living? Would you be able to pay for your DS to go private too? Like you, I don't really like the principle of private education, but as we don't live in a perfect world I certainly wouldn't judge any parent who chooses to go private for sensible reasons.

Hello everyone.

Thanks for replying. I don't really know what it is about the state schools that we've seen that just didn't grab me. I keep trying to rationalise the feeling but the only thing I come back to is gut feel, based on what I think DD will be like in these schools. I honestly think she'll be lost. I also can't see her asserting herself in a class of 30 and being heard.

But is it wise to spend a fortune on a gut feel?

With reference to finances, We'd be ok up to the end of primary for both DD and DS. I realise that that is a long way away but then what? I know someone who put his kids through private prep and both his kids have got into good local grammar schools. I think is we did go down the private route, that would be the plan, but obviously no guarantee in that.

I am thinking of returning to work at some point but will only work and I think if we plan for 7 years time from now we might be ok if worst came to worst and we carried on with private for secondary. So I guess money isn't really the main reason for hesitating.

The other thing is that when I go back to work, It would be good for DC to have more opportunities at school as I won;t have the time to take them to the various after school clubs that lots of kids seem to take part in. Also, it would be lovely to have weekends as free as possible to catch up with friends and family. I know so many people who just don't do anything in term time as they are constantly busy with kids clubs.

I think I also worry about what people will say. I think i'd be slightly awkward about MIL and FIL and BILs commenting on the fact that its a waste of money, even though DP and his 3 brothers were privately educated from the age of 3.

I'm kind of pouring my thoughts out on this long reply.Sorry.

Teacherwith2kids and Hisboo, to be honest, I have not been drawn to any of the heads at any of the schools, both state and private. I'm a bit of a cynic and feel that there's alot of 'sales spiel [sp]' going on. The thing that I was taken with at the private school was the 10 year old girl who showed us around. She was well spoken, polite, easy to have a conversation with, and confident without seeming brattish if that's even a word.

I left school with very little confidence and part of that came from my parents I guess but it also came from school. So if DD ended up being like this girl at age 10 and carried on with that quiet confidence then that is ultimately what I want for her. And of course for DS too. I want for them both to leave school as confident, well-rounded, grounded young people more so than anything else. Of course I want them to do well academically but that really isn't the be all and end all for me. The private school says it brings out the best in everyone and that should be the motto for all schools but I don't get that feeling at the others.

I guess I am more leaning towards the private option, and like Kensingtonia put it, give myself permission to go with this.

But my bloody head just keeps say 'but, ...'

Arrrrggghhh - I'm driving myself mad with all of this.

Thanks for all your replies. I think I might just go and bury my head in the sand somewhere.

A charismatic head certainly helps.

Prep was chosen because it had a fantastic local reputation, it felt like a close-knit family unit, all the kids had big beaming smiles on their faces and seemed to really like their teachers. The teachers seemed to like the children too. Small enough to be nurturing, big enough to have lots going on. It has suited DS well.

Senior school has been chosen due to the person DS has become, sporty and fairly academic. It was also the only senior school we looked at where I felt like I could be me - not a typical "prep-school-mum". All the teachers were friendly and approachable, DS nattered away to them and some 6th Formers for hours. It is also closer to my home, just a 20/25 minute journey, not an hour, like some.

I'm an ex teacher and have written 2 self-help books on education- covering choosing a school, transfer to sec school, and worries parents may have. I also have 2 DCS who both went to state schools, but in the past I taught in private and state schools.

I think you need to separate out 2 issues here. One is your daughter's personality and the other is the academic performance of the school.

If your DD is very shy, then you need to work on this by building her confidence as much as you can before next Sept- and gently pushing her comfort zones to try to help her a little in new situations.

I think also that you have to be very careful not to let YOUR "gut" feelings affect how your DD might perceive or settle ( or not!) into any school. You shouldn't let your own negative memories influence your choice unless there is a real reason for that.

If your DD is bright then presumably you will choose a school that it quite academic and has high expectations.

You should also think about what they offer outside the classroon and whether they will cater for her interests- whatever that is- choir, dance, art, sport etc.

I just get the feeling that you are possibly allowing your own fears to be transferred to your DD without good reason.

Although class size may be 30-ish, children susually work in small groups on tables, linked to their ability. Your DD would soon make friends and if she was shy the teacher should try to make her feel more secure and encouarge her to be more outgoing.

Can you put your finger on what it is about any of the schools that make you feel worried?

p.s I don't think you should worry about the private v state system in a "moral" way. IMO it's what is best for the child.

You ought not either to assume that private is always best - they vary hugely. My local private prer school pushes children very hard- and class size is around 15-20 ( not tiny). Some children would find that hot-house approach too stressful.

Also, most private schools cater for children up to age 13 when they traditionally transfer to public schools ( not always, I know.) So bear that in mind.

Have you considered Montesorri schools? they are very much child centred and might suit your DD if she needs her confidence building.

I do relly think though that if the main concersn about your DD are that she is quiet etc, then it's your role to try to build her self esteem and confidence at home so she can cope in any situation.

"I think also that you have to be very careful not to let YOUR "gut" feelings affect how your DD might perceive or settle ( or not!) into any school. You shouldn't let your own negative memories influence your choice unless there is a real reason for that."

I think this is incredibly important, and not just about education choices. I have made a couple of seriously bad decisions for my children basing them on how I was at the same age.

Another think to remember is that your child will be a different person at 5.5 to the person she is at 4.5. I know this seems obvious, but it's easy to forget. I remember looking at my very babyish 4 year old and thinking that he would never be ready for school. 6 months later he was a different child and more than ready.
Not sure if any of this helps- sorry!

That is a good point seeker. part of my advice to parents is that they talk up the positive aspects of any new situation/school to their child- eg "YOur new school will be lovely, because you will be able to make lots of new friends And I expect some of them are worried a little about moving to a bigger class."

One of the best ways to help a shy child is to encourage them to be a good friend- and look for another shy child to talk to and help.

Coping with the rough and tumble of the classroom etc is part of growing up. Rather than trying to protect a child from that by withdrawing them from that situaiton, it might be better to let them experience it- and help them cope and develop as a confident eprson.

A head can change at any time, and in those cases you just have to make the best of it.

But, and especially in the independent sector, if you do not take to the current head, think carefully. Heads have enormous (and less fettered) sway over an independent school. So you need to think hard about whether you want this person to have a major influence in your DC's schooling.

OP are you new to your area?

Where I live, we had about 6 primary schools to choose from. 3 were oversubscribed and 1 was best in county- so you could only get a place if you lived in the catchment area- and people would move to do so.

But mums " at the nursery school gate" had very clear opinions on all the schools. There were the schools no one wanted their child to go to, others that were okay, and the best ones that everyone wanted. Mums used to talk about the heads, the schools' methods of teaching reading etc etc, and although some of the talk was " school gate gossip" there were facts in it all too!

I just wonder if you have talked to other parents, cut through the prejudices etc, but got some idea of what each school is like?

I don't want to sound mean, but I think your worries are based on how you felt as a child, and how you are now as a person ( you said you lack confidence) - but your DD is not you.

Hi Ameliagrey. I don't think you're being mean at all. I appreciate your replies. I think you're right. I am taking my own experience into consideration but even if I ignore that, and Dp does, we still feel that she'd do better at the indie.

We live in between 2 schools and according to last years intake we're just outside the catchment for our no 1 choice. Dd is at nursery at our no.2 choice and I have spoken to the other mums. Most of the ones I know live within a stones throw of this school so for them they seem to be choosing because of the fact that they are so close. Alot actually haven't even bothered looking at other schools for this reason. I have heard about one of the local junior schools in terms of gossip but not much else.

Meditrina, it's not that I didn't take to the head, I just wasn't 'wowed' by any of them. You are right though that the head could change.

Thanks for your replies.

Ameliagrey, what are your books called and are they easily available?

Also, I loved my time at school. Its just with hindsight that I can see that school did have a profound effect on me and academically I was fine but i didn't leave as a well rounded individual.

I knew when the polite articulate year 6 girl who showed me round picked up from conversations with teachers that DD had partial hearing proceeded to tell me about what the school had done for her sister who was also partial hearing.

In addition to other's comments, it's important to recognise that children change and develop in ways that you can't foresee.

My dd sounds similar to yours and this time last year I couldn't imagine how she would cope at school. Her school is very child-centred and nurturing, though has high EAL, FSM, low in League tables etc. I thought she'd get lost.

A year down the line and she's thriving. She's become so much more confident and able to cope with situations and lots of people. She exceeded the expected targets for the end of reception before Easter.

Though it sounds like you really feel like it would be best for your dd if she went to a private school in which case, do that.

Mumat39- please send me a DM and I can tell you as I don't want to out myself just yet! But yes, they are available on Amazon.

Coming back to this, as I realise I may have misrepresented myself a little.

We did not choose the school solely because of the head. The head we first met has actually since retired and been replaced. I was using the head as 'shorthand' for the whole feel and ethos of the place - a place where children REALLY matter (even if they are somewhat unusual children like my DS) and are at the centre of the way the adults in school think.

[It contrasted very sharply with an extremely highly regarded local primary which we visited a few days earlier - children ignored, all interaction was with me, lots of questioning about 'and what exactly did you say your husband's job in this area was going to be?' and comments about 'you can be assured that we work very hard to keep the less desirable type of family out of this school' ... the head was still personable, friendly, 'selling' his school, but I could tell from that one visit what the ethos and priorities of the school were IYSWIM]

teacher I found that with a couple of "outstanding" schools who were all courting the parents who just might choose independent instead. They could not have found a better way to put me off. I absolutely loathe and detest that sort of attitude.

the "less desirable types of family" - interestingly, at the school I work at, often produce the children with the most drive and ability to succeed (well, it's interesting to me).

The Head at DS's Prep was a big personality. I have seen that fade somewhat over the past few years and have become very aware that he is rather sycophantic towards some parents The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing - but with only months left, it's not a problem.

I know some wont agree but so you get it wrong and send your DD to an unsuitable school? In life we make mistakes wrong job that looked so promising, wrong degree course the important thing is how we respond to it and how we move on from out mistake.
Im not saying you should deliberately try to get it wrong but ultimately it isn't the end of the world.

I work with dysfunctional children not one has been damaged by spending a couple of terms in the "wrong" school, poverty break down of parental relationships or parents who abuse substances, physical mental sexual abuse damage children long term.

Agree, happygardening...

DS's first school WAS the wrong school for him, and he ended up as a selective mute after 4 terms. Nobody (except for the staff, who know the history) at his current school ever believes this, in fact his friends think the idea that he ever didn't speak is absolutely hilarious..

I took him out, I HEd him to mend him, I moved him to another school after a house move - he's fine. I felt like the worst parent in the world at the time but ultimately there has been no long-term damage.