how did you know that the school your DC ended up at was the right one for them?

[mumat39]

Hello. We are fortunate to live in an area of Ofsted 'GOOD' schools for primary education. I have visited about 3 of them and just haven't had the 'gut' feel for them. In fact I don't think I really like any of them.

As a result we have also looked at a local indie school and although I had a better feeling about that one there are still issues, probably more to do with the principle.

My DD is so far showing signs of being very able and is good at picking things up quickly, often only needing to be told something once. The nursery she is at at the moment said that she is very bright but very sensitive. I was similar and kind of got lost in the state schools I went to. I was able therefore didn't need the support, when in reality I was able to learn by parrot fashion and never really knew how to and still don't know how to apply myself when the parrot fashion learning stopped working. That whole being ignored really has affected me my whole life and I just wish I'd left school a more confident person. I did okay in my exams, but it was more the self esteem issues I left with that I worry about.

DD is already a little lost where she is as she is in a class of quite a few unruly boys and this seems to affect her behaviour at home.

So my question is, if you really don't like the state options on offer, do you just go with the flow and hope for the best? Or do you fork out for the indie option and again hope for the best? Home schooling isn't an option. I'm getting to the stage where I feel like I need a break from being a stay at home mum so would be looking to get some part time work at some stage. Also, how do I know which school will support DD and DS when the time comes to bring out the best in them and ensure that they reach their full potential.

I'm asking this now as we hear back from the LEA about which school DD has a place at and I'd like to get my head sorted on this before then.

Please don't judge me on this. I have always been a state all the way type, but have been really underwhelmed by what's on offer so am very very. confused. I also am not convinced that the state options we have will be good for DD for the reasons I've mentioned.

Any advice would be appreciated but I really don't want to start yet another state vs private debate. Thank you.

Teacher, that sounds awful. One of the schools that we looked at is actually so popular and over subscribed that they just seemed not very helpful at all as if they don't have to try to convince prospective parents on the school as everyone wants to go there.

Also, it's great to hear that your child is a chatterbox now and that he seems to have gotten over that bad experience and also that you have too.

Happygardening, it's good to know that if we get it wrong it won't be the end of the world. SO thanks for your reply. It's good to know that and I'll try and remember.

Thanks again

for over 90% of the population its catchment or nothing
round here I had choice of dire catchment or reasonable other
so I went for reasonable
no further options available

to be frank, I believe my dd may be one in the rare category of children who have been damaged by her junior school- but that was hardly foreseeable

we didn't know that dd would develop health problems that this particular school, being keen on attendance and achievement, would be ill equipped to deal with

in fact, it was precisely those factors that sounded so good at the initial interview that turned out disastrous in the end, because dd turned out to have totally different needs from what we had foreseen

still, I am with those posters who think everybody makes some bad decisions in life and learning how to deal with it- whether in staying or getting out- is a good life skill which we can help to model to our children

dd is not under the illusion that we never make mistakes

but I hope she is learning something from us about how you deal with a situation that turns out different from what you expected

Hi Cory

I have often heard that state schools come down quite hard on parents of children who have more absences from school due to health reasons than children who don't.

We've bern told by our nursery that DD needs to attend more. Dd has multiple food allergies and eczema. She has missed about 4 weeks of nursery partly due to that and partly due to the fact that she seems to have picked up every bug going. She doesn't sleep that well and I think that makes her more susceptible. And when she gets things i alwasys want her to be as well as possible before sending her in.

I worry that this will be a problem for us when Dd starts full time school in September.

"I have often heard that state schools come down quite hard on parents of children who have more absences from school due to health reasons than children who don't."

Have you? Where on earth from?

from parents who have experienced this first hand.

Don't believe everything you hear. Parents are the worst possible reporters on things like this. There isn't a state school in the land who would come down harder on genuine illness absence than on other sorts of absence. If your child has a particular health problem, though, talk to the school about it in advance and work together.

And igno a nursery telling you your child should attend more. nursery isn't compulsory- she doesn't have to go at all if you don't want her to!

Hi seeker.

One of the mums at DD's nursery has a teenage daughter and she has been to about 4 different schools since starting at secondary. She also has allergies and terrible asthma and the mum was saying that she has received letters from the schools that were unpleasant. She was also saying that as her daughter still has to be wrapped for her eczema that she was very uncomfortable undressing in front of the other girls for PE. She was saying that although it had been agreed with the school, that her DD could have more privacy, the PE teacher would always have an issue with it. At her newest school, she was stopped in the corridor by a senior member of staff who had a go at her for her absence the previous week, even though she had been hospiatlised for a very bad asthma attack. The mum was actually getting really upset about it as her daughter has been so badly affected by her experiences.

I also know of another boy who's mum told me that she had received threatening letters from her DS's school due to his lack of attendance due to quite severe stomach pains and again multiple allergies. His condidtion was so severe that he was actually being considered for quite a serious operation.

I have also heard about other incidences, where the schools sadly seem more concerned about their attendance stats than the children.

It's a relief to hear that this sort of thing isn't commonplace. I also didn't appreciate being told that by the nursery, but I forgot about the fact that it is our choice to send her. The comment just got me thinking about the things I'd heard about the experiences of others.

Thanks for your reply.

Some state schools are tough on absences. Not because the school is unkind but because the school must attain a certain attendance to get a good OFSTED score. It's not their fault they are placed in this position of course, but in order to get Outstanding, this is somehting the HT has to watch.

You often find threads on here where parents are upset about the importance placed on attendance. Look them up. DC with long term health problems are often made to feel awful.

As for how you know a school is right for your DC...I'm not entirely sure. None are perfect, so you need the one that ticks the most boxes, or ticks the boxes you prioritise above others. Unfortunately these change over time , making school a moveable feast.

What are the things you are looking for above others?

And at schools like ours which has a significant number of children from disadvantaged, chaotic families, persistent absenteeiam is high. This is bad for the school, as word factory says, but it is also incredibly bad for the children concned, and we work very hard to get those children into school. This involved writing standard letters, which often parents whose children are genuinely off find irritating at bes, alarming at worst. The trouble is that letters have to go out to everyone. It's whqtnhappens after the letter tha's important. The genuine cases should be able to go into school, have a sensible conversation about their child and that's should be that. The problem is that the genuine cases tend to take the letters much more seriously than the non- genuine ones! But before the school can escalate things for the persistent truanters and the children kept home for no good reason, the process has to be gone through. School are notoriously bad at explaining this.

Hello Mumat. What I'm going to write is going to sound patronising, but it's not intended to do so. I slightly baulk when I hear people describe their 3-4 year old first born as 'bright and sensitive', which is often the reason given that their child might not fit into a class of 30. It's just that everybody (myself probably included, though not the bright bit in fact) thinks their first born is bright and sensitive. And yet somehow most of these children get through school fine. I think it's that when you go see a primary school, the whole place seems way too big and impersonal for your tiny lovely child, forgetting of course that by the time they get there they'll be that much bigger and growing. I think a lot of people make the decision to go private on these grounds when it wasn't really necessary (I think everybody should choose schools based on the more robust seeming personality of their second child).
I'm not saying that these private schools aren't what you should be choosing, just that I don't think it's unusual to feel that a state primary is too overwhelming for your child when for the vast majority of children it's more than fine.
And as others have said, it's very rare that anybody is damaged by a year or two in the 'wrong school'. My brothers were, but they were sent to boarding school at 7. Whenever I worry, I think, oh well, at least I'm not doing that...

I often tell parents who are unsure about a certain school choice that nothing is set in stone.

And it's advice I have had to take myself. DD chose a secondary that really was not what I had in mind. She and DH insisted she at least be allowed to give it a go.
I agreed, on the proviso that we revisit the decision at the end of each term.

The parents who come unstuck are those who won't or can't make a change.

Hello wordfactory.
Thanks for your considered replies. The reason I asked the question in the first place is that having seen so many nurseries and schools and just not getting that good gut feel, I was starting to wonder if there is something wrong with me.

Before I started looking at nurseries for DD I had asked lots of other people for advice and all of them just said 'you'll know' and 'just go with your gut instinct'.

I was hoping to start DD in a nursery at age 3 and didn't as none that I'd seen felt right. DD has alot of food allergies to all sorts of everyday foods and is also anaphylactic to some. So I guess my focus has always been from that angle and how willing the staff I spoke to were about thinking for themselves about how to manage this.

In the end we went for one of the local school nurseries and I didn't go to see it or anything as I didn't want to be put off. I knew they had a Senco, so that was it really. When I did go to see it after we had accepted a place, I was a bit worried that DD would soon be a bit bored of it. Also, there was again something about the place that didn't feel right but I ignored that on the basis that DD needed to get of of the house and it would do. She started there last September and in the last couple of months everytime I go to collect her she's looked a bit sad and a bit bored. She's not the only child who comes out looking like that. I've noticed alot of the older kids do, so it could be 'normal'. She often is very slow and not very excited to be going in and when she comes home from school, her behaviour is terrible with lots of tantrums. This is really out of caracter for her, although I suppose her personality could be changing. During the Easter break, so the last 2 weeks, she has been like a different little girl, very happy and calm. Maybe this is 'normal' too.

There was another mum in the nursery who took her daughter out after about 3 months as she was having the same issues, i.e her DD had gone from behaving to not and she also thought it stemmed from nursery.

In terms of what's important to us is that both our kids go to school, so not home ed, have the same opportunities as everyone else and get the support they need to fulfil their potential, have access to competitive sports (learning to lose is an important lesson to learn, as well as playing as part of a team, and winning is), access to languages and music. It's also important that they have some downtime. One of my nieces is busy all the time and has activities planned every single day including weekends, and I think that's just too much for a young child, esp. once kids start to get homework. Alot of this comes from my SIL and there are at least a couple of activities that my niece would be happy just not doing but her mum makes her. It would be good I suppose for a school to provide as much of those things as possible so that the pressure is off DC and us and so they can have some time where they can relax and also from a purely selfish stance, that we aren't just a taxi service in our spare time ferrying them from one thing to another.

I think having read all the replies on this post, I'm actually thinking that I can't rely on mu gut waking up to give me an instinct about any of the schools and that maybe I do know what is right for DD and even though it really grates me to say this, I think she would be better suited to the independent school that we've seen. Incidentally, we only went to see this after seeing the state schools and definitely got a gut feel for this one. It's just then been a bit of a battle as it also wasn't 100% perfect and it also wasn't a state school.

PollyParanoia, thanks for your reply too. I have always worried that my seeing my DD as sensitive and bright was always just me being a proud mum and have always been wary of that. I have never said that to her nursery, yet at the last 2 parents evening type meetings the teacher has mentioned this. She sees the sensitivity as a bit of an issue that they need to work on. She says that DD is very mature and just doesn't understand the fact that there are naughty kids in her class. DD sees this behaviour and tends to retreat even if she isn't playing near the ones being naughty. DD can also read and write and is very interested in this and she can also do some basic mental maths, which she instigates. The teacher said that DD is often going to her or the other staff members and asking them to confirm that a word she has found says what she thinks it says and also asks them to confirm numbers that she trying to add or subtract are also right. The teacher has said to me that DD is fine academically and is ahead of the class so they don't worry about that side of things with her. I think that means that she mostly plays there and whilst that's brilliant, I wonder how much time she gets with the teachers to do more. So when I say that she is sensitive and bright, I realise that must sound odd for a 4 year old, but the nursery have also said that.

Seeker, thanks again for your reply. The thing about letters home is something I do understand, but it's a shame that things can't be dealt with more sensitively in the cases where there are kids that have been or are genuinely unwell. The parents of those kids must have prodcued doctors notes to verify the fact that their kids are unwell?

I can also understand that parents of the genuinely ill children do get upset as it just adds another layer of stress to their already stressful lives. I know it would upset me. Like you say though, maybe schools just need to be better at dealing with this. Thanks again.

All, apologies for the long post.

sorry I meant 'rely on my gut to wake up and give me an instinct about any of the state schools'

I'm so sorry for ALL my silly typos.

How ridiculous to have a 'standard letter that goes out to everyone regardless of circumstances and then 'its what happens afterwards that matters' . So pointless sending of letter, pointless anxiety for recipient - just demonstrated the worst of public 'services'.
OP - you can only make a decision based on the best evidence at the time, but keep it under review. The worst that can happen is that if your DD does not like the indie you move her elsewhere. It is not a matter of 'principle' altho many on MN seem to try to make others feel there is something shameful about indie education - just what is best for each child. You know your DD best and whether a smaller class size would suit her better - you do not need permission from the self-appointedn MN righteousness police

What else would you do? The school doesn't know why the child is off- if notes are coming innwith something vague on it , or no notes at all. The letter explains how much time the child has had off and offers an appointment with the Head, or the Education Welfare Officer. For some people just beingtold how much time their child has and off is enough to get the child backnto school- they just didn't realise how much the odd days off. For some the appointment with the Head or EWO give them the opportunity to seek the helpntheynneed but may not have known where to get. For others, they explIn a child's chronic health problem the school may not have known about so school and parents can work together. And for a few it's the beginning of a process that might even end in prosecution. But the initial letter has to go to everyone with poor attendance unless it's something the school already knows about.

Sorry- this thread h got a bit sidetracked.

mumat39 (younger than I was!) I think there are lots of things to think about. One that a lot of us ( including me) forget is that children change so very, very much and very very quickly at this age. She will be a different child in 6 months time, let alone a years time, so the tiny school which suits her at 5 may not provide enough stimultion an variety when she's 9. So as someone wisely said, don't think of this as a one off, unchangeable decision. And also, while the academic side is very important, a very academic child often needs to have the other sides of their persona brought out as well. You need to look at how all the schools could do this for her. But, when it down to it, it's basically gut feeling. Just remember she won't be 4 for long!

NO school is ever going to be 100% perfect.

Quite truthfully, you need to relax a little.

You sound very uptight and it's no surprise that your DD is possibly picking up your vibes- and if you are not sure about her nursery now it is possible that your body language and mood is conveyed to her- which could be why she appears more relaxed when on hols.

Yes, primary school is important- but I've been through it all as my DCs are now just out of uni. Sec school choice is more important and as long as she gets a half- decent education up to 11, and is happy - has friends, and so on- then she'll be fine.

You'd be surprised at how much kids pick up from their parents' moods etc so you need to be less anxious as it sounds as if a lot of this is rubbing off on her.

Bluepetticoat, I have just tried to be honest about things on this thread because I thought everyone who told me to go on Gut instinct meant that I would find a school that I thought was perfect.

This is the first time I am doing this so from this thread I have learned that there is no such thing as a 100% perfect school. I don't feel uptight. Just worried that we get it right. But that's the other lesson I've learned on this thread; that if we don't get it right, then we can change our minds until we do.

I'm not sure how to take your post really. I was asking for help as I was genuinely confused and everyone else on this thread has manged to answer that without judging me. I know I'm not alone in worrying about this.

I didn't mean to sound harsh- but I do think you still need to think along the lines that any anxiety you have about anything connected with school will be picked up by your DD.

You have already said that she is very sensitive and that you are anxious and sometimes lack confidence etc - maybe think if these 2 are connected? You are her main role model and at her age all she is trying to do is please you.

I don't agree that you should choose a school on gut instinct. You need to make a cold, rational decision- even with a pros and cons list down each side of a page.

Schools do have an "atmosphere" but this can change as quickly as the staff- and in the time your DD is there, it's likely there will be changes. At my son's primary school the head changed 3 times- and not always for the best.

There were 2 changes of head at my daughter's school- in 2 years.

Schools can change very rapidly- they won't be the same over 6 years.

WRT to private schools- they can be brilliant but they have a PR machine behind them- they have to fill the places- so look beyond the nice buildings, small classes and charistmatic heads.

If your DD really is very bright, you ought to be asking questions about enrichment, extension teaching, and differentiation.

Hello again Bluepetticoat.

I think the fact that I have been waiting for this gut instinct to call has been my problem. Realising that this isn;'t necessarily the case for everyone is actually helpful, as I can stop wondering about this and like you suggest, just concentrate on the facts.

I know you're right about my anxieties rubbing off on my DC. I don't often talk about things like this in front of them and it was only whilst writing the opening post on this that I realised that I'm still not comfortable with the nursery she's at. It's not something that I worry about everyday. My view on her nursery is, she's there and I'm not going to take her out. It isn't anything serious that concerns me otherwise I would have taken her out, if that makes sense ? I actually enjoy catching up with the other mums when I go to drop off or pick up and mostly we don't talk about school stuff.

I do hear what you're saying and will try and not worry so much anymore. I've been thinking about this alot today and everyone's replies on here have been very helpful. I guess I've always known what's right for my DD and I do feel more relaxed now that it doesn't matter that the school isn't perfect and that it isn't the end of the world if we don't get it completely right.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

MrsGuyofGisborne, thanks for your reply. I do need to do what's right for DD so thanks for your wise words.

Seeker, hello again.

Thanks for your reply. It's good to know that if the school are aware of any health issues that they deal with them accordingly.

Thanks for taking the time to reply again.

I am to a large extent with petticoat and others.

I am sometimes amused here on MN where posters spout on about things at their DCs school that they could only actually really know to be true if they were 7 years old and sitting in that classroom in ankle socks! SO much of what we think we know about a school is gleaned from the edited version our DCs tell us, 3rd hand accounts from other similar mums, playground gossip and scuttlebutt, often told by mums who don't allow their lack of actual access to the classroom get in the way of their story!

I think when it comes to school selection, wise words have already been said here. A quick tour of the school on one day really won't tell you exactly how your DC is going to 'fit in' at a given school, 'gut instinct' or not, especially, dare I say if there's a PR machine at work! You could view a happy, productive classroom full of directed activity and lots of studious little girls and think 'I want that for DD', whereas she ends up in the class next door with the teacher whose forte is keeping a bit of a lid on the wild exuberance of that cohort of boys, for instance. Yes, if chairs are actively flying through the air, unchecked, you may well be right in avoiding that school, but you have to be there at that moment to see it!

The 'best' idea is to talk to trusted mum-friends at the school gate about whether their DC is happy there- and a quick look at the cover letter of the OFSTED. And look at the kids as they leave school with their families. Do you like what you see; everyday, normal parents wandering out asking their DC about their day or 2 mums grappling in the mud pulling out each other's hair extensions?! - though I once saw that at my DCs first juniors!

And Heads come and go, state and private. Everything can change in a term.

FWIW I have a work mate who feels she has made a mistake re education. She has one DC, a DD of now 9. She was apparently happy and achieving reasonably at the local state primary in a leafy village in posh Hampshire. Her mother believes the DD to be 'very clever' and 'sensitive'. The father is a bit neurotic, to be honest! The DD was having difficulties with one particular boy (the father loathes boys, esp near his DD!). The school rearranged the classroom to accommodate this, but this wasn't good enough, so she was whipped out and sent to a ££ academic prep. She is now being constantly, subtly bullied every day by the girls at this school as they are all way more 'alpha' than her but it's a small class so there are only 7 girls in it so the D has nowhere to go to, as it were (the downside of small schools). The mother is going to move her back to the village primary but it's currently full. The mum has also recognised that for a DD like hers, once private, always private as she did see that 4-7 years spent in a small, 'nurturing' indie wasn't really good preparation for 280 DC entry state comps, even though they're amongst the best in the country, academically. ( I know you were talking about a friend when you mentioned private prep as a stepping stone to state grammar but believe me, state grammars can be challenging and alpha, too! Despite what many think, they're not a direct substitute for private secondary!)

I am not entirely sure we have picked the right secondary for DS2, though, ironically, we picked it for him when it was DS1's turn to go 2 years ago! DS1 is reasonably clever and would be fine at most of the local secondaries as he would be in the top or next set where, frankly, behaviour tends to be better; DS2 will be in the middle or set below middle. The school is very MC so my hope is that, from what I've seen and experienced (DS1 is in Y8 there now), DS2's classes will also be reasonably well disciplined as well as all the DCs arrive being 'school ready'. But I do worry that the school rests heavily on its stellar academic results and that the 'less able' might not get the focused 'look in' they might get in a more broadly spread comp (like our second choice was!). However, nothing is writ in stone so I shall see how it goes for Y7 come September.

Final thing, again, as already said- your DD will change beyond recognition in the next few years. And our perception of what they can handle. DS2 is almost 11 and small (and young!) for his age. He started Scouts the week before Easter, having been 'in' since Beavers. Bloody hell, it was mayhem in there! He only knew one boy who is an old friend so that was OK. I confess I was unsure about leaving him as the place was heaving with 12-14 year old boys turning into men, whooping, shouting, running, bundling.

Anyway, I picked him up and I asked how he'd managed and that he could consider looking at DS1's Scout Troop (different village, long story!) if he thought it was too boisterous; but he looked non-plussed at me. Why would he want to try another one as this one was fine and he'd had fun..?!