Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Can I ask for help?

55 replies

littlelegsmum · 03/04/2012 23:13

Dd 10 has just received her mock sats results and doesn't seem to have made much progress since y2. The results are:

Y2. Y6.

2c. 3c. Maths
2c. 3b. Reading
2c. 3a. Writing

The school seem more than happy but we feel like we're being fobbed off as the only subjects they're teaching is Maths and English - so its all about sats and getting a better score for the school.

Am I able to ask for help for her or should I just accept the school saying she's ok?

OP posts:
Original poster
littlelegsmum · 03/04/2012 23:14

That should say yo after dd. I'm not on my tenth child!!

OP posts:
GracieW · 03/04/2012 23:58

Those scores are not great tbh, and the improvement is terrible. I would definitely be talking to the school about what has happened. Have they not said anything at parents' eve?

To give you an idea, these are the levels:

Level 2: Well below the required standard
Level 3: Below average
Level 4: The expected level for most primary children (Y6)
Level 5: Very able

HTH

MrsShrekTheThird · 04/04/2012 00:26

I'd be asking lots of questions,too. Those scores are not uncommon but certainly not fantastic. The progress is what you'd expect to see in two years, possibly 3, but not 4. What sort of a feel do you get about her ability? Is she average-ish? does she enjoy reading? do you count money/add, subtract, multiply when you're out shopping and stuff like that - I'd be very concerned about the maths result, it implies that a child doesn't really "think" mathematically, they use basic units of time and measure but not stuff like estimation, area, decimals, problem solving, and using their own ideas.

This isn't necessarily a reflection on your child either, more likely that it's the school...and perhaps you need to find out how much direction the children were given. If it was done completely "cold" as it were, as a baseline assessment (although a tad late in Y6 to be doing that, imho) then they're working on the points that the children need to learn most, and things will improve

IndigoBell · 04/04/2012 06:43

There's one term of school left. (assuming you change schools next year)

You are being fobbed off really badly.

School has done very badly by your child - in all subjects. She should be a level 4 in all of them (because she should have made 2 levels of progress)

I'm not sure what you should do about this now. Nor is it clear whats gone wrong, why hasn't she made any progress?

I guess (if you have 1 term left at this school) these are your options:

  1. Take it up with school - my guess is this will not help.
  1. Wait and talk to her new school.
  1. Do extra work with her at home.
  1. Get a tutor for her - this will be very expensive, she'll probably need a tutor for a while. And they may or may not be any good. Especially since you don't know why she's done do badly.
  1. Concentrate on finding out why she's done so badly. - Does she have dyslexia? Or trouble concentrating? Or trouble hearing? Or seeing? Or has she had bad teachers for the last 4 years? Or was it just exam stress and she's really higher than that?
  1. Do nothing and trust secondary school / maturity to help.
  1. Take her out of school for this last term and teach her yourself. Or just let her enjoy herself. If she's not learning anything there - why send her?
Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 08:38

GracieWTue 03-Apr-12 23:58:48

Those scores are not great tbh, and the improvement is terrible. I would definitely be talking to the school about what has happened. Have they not said anything at parents' eve?

My thoughts exactly, however DD only started there last September, so i'm putting lack of progression down to previous school - But, does that still mean I have to keep quiet or speak up?

As it's a school that doesn't perfom too well anyway they are going all out to get the best scores so we haven't had a parents evening :O

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 04/04/2012 08:43

You never have to keep quiet.

It's always reasonable to talk to school about concerns.

Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 08:44

MrsShrekTheThirdWed 04-Apr-12 00:26:07

I'd be asking lots of questions,too. Those scores are not uncommon but certainly not fantastic. The progress is what you'd expect to see in two years, possibly 3, but not 4. What sort of a feel do you get about her ability? Is she average-ish? does she enjoy reading? do you count money/add, subtract, multiply when you're out shopping and stuff like that - I'd be very concerned about the maths result, it implies that a child doesn't really "think" mathematically, they use basic units of time and measure but not stuff like estimation, area, decimals, problem solving, and using their own ideas.

This isn't necessarily a reflection on your child either, more likely that it's the school...and perhaps you need to find out how much direction the children were given. If it was done completely "cold" as it were, as a baseline assessment (although a tad late in Y6 to be doing that, imho) then they're working on the points that the children need to learn most, and things will improve

She has always waned to do better but never seems to be able to :( As i've said i'm completely blaming her previous school and maybe new school don't think they need to do anything. However, surely they can she she hasn't progressed so would want to help/support her in some way.

She can only do very basic Maths and is no good with times, measurements etc. I recently sent her to the shop with £1 and she didn't know she could get 4 things for 25p each!!! :(

OP posts:
Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 08:51

IndigoBellWed 04-Apr-12 08:43:07

You never have to keep quiet.

It's always reasonable to talk to school about concerns.

Thank you for both your replies. I've been into school so many times (I think they're really fed up of me) and they are not offering any solutions as they don't think she has a problem?!?! Apparently she is in the lowest group for her subjects but at the top of that group, which is what they're pointing out to me - apparently she's one of the best in the class (so you see where I have problems getting them to take me seriously).

She is a model pupil, who stays very quiet and never causes problems, whereas most of the other class do, for one reason and another.

I now feel like I should have pushed sooner but have always trusted schools to do the best for my children . .

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 04/04/2012 09:12

I'm afraid if your child has problems trusting school is the wrong thing to do :(

However, it's not too late. Her scores are bad - but not dreadful. There's still loads of time to make a big difference.

But you must stop expecting anything from this school. You must help her yourself - because this school isn't going to.

:(

Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 09:34

Thank you and I think I do need to acknowledge that to be honest :(

I have alot of time now in the holidays to do lots of things with her so i'll set a timetable up ;) and may even consider the home ed until July, which has crossed my mind before. So depending on how she reacts to me helping her, we can think again.

Thank you again :)

OP posts:
mumblesmum · 04/04/2012 12:13

Were the Y2 2cs from an infant school?

Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 12:33

mumblesmumWed 04-Apr-12 12:13:50

Were the Y2 2cs from an infant school?

Yes, they were - It was the sats.

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 04/04/2012 13:10

I think what mumbles is implying is that the 2c might have been inflated - and therefore your DD might have made reasonable progress.

While this is true, it doesn't change the facts that your DD is a bit behind, and school aren't interested in helping her to catch up.

mumblesmum · 04/04/2012 15:03

I wonder how often infant schools do this to make their data look good, and absolutely screw the junior school in the process. We had 4 children start at the end of last summer from DIFFERENT infant schools - all reported at 2c. 3 of them were working at L1 in reading and writing! Shock I guess that's the pressure on infant schools though, probably not helped by EYFS child-initiated learning.

littlelegs dd may have made expected progress from junior school entry data.

However, as indigo says - she's is a bit behind, although its odd for writing at this level to be above reading. Does her comprehension let her down? Are they giving any special interventions for the maths and reading?

Are the Y6 levels you quote teacher assessments or results of tests?

mrz · 04/04/2012 15:35

If your daughter has only been there since Sept do you know what her levels were when she left her previous school?

If she arrived at very low levels and has made progress that could explain why the school is happy but it would indicate that the previous school has let her down.

Becaroooo · 04/04/2012 15:39

Agree with indigo and mrz

The old school could well have inflated her Y2 SATS scores...she should have been assessed after starting at this new school - i.e. before her Y6 SATS - perhaps you could ask for those scores and decide what her progress has been accordingly?

LeeCoakley · 04/04/2012 15:48

Can you afford a tutor for a while? Someone new who could see where the gaps are and equip her with the basic skills she needs for secondary. How did you feel she was progressing at her old school? Did they never discuss her progress at parents' evenings?

Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 15:51

IndigoBellWed 04-Apr-12 13:10:46

I think what mumbles is implying is that the 2c might have been inflated - and therefore your DD might have made reasonable progress.

While this is true, it doesn't change the facts that your DD is a bit behind, and school aren't interested in helping her to catch up.

To be honest I get the need for sats, however I think that both sets of results were inflated as the school she is at now are saying she went to them working at level 2's therefore they are taking credit for moving her up a level. Whilst I have all previous levels when she left Year 5 and that indicates she was the following:

Reading 3b
writing 3a
Maths 3b

So you see, they seem to be taking the credit (if thats what you can call it) for any progress (used the term loosely) :(

OP posts:
Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 15:59

mumblesmumWed 04-Apr-12 15:03:44

I wonder how often infant schools do this to make their data look good, and absolutely screw the junior school in the process. We had 4 children start at the end of last summer from DIFFERENT infant schools - all reported at 2c. 3 of them were working at L1 in reading and writing! I guess that's the pressure on infant schools though, probably not helped by EYFS child-initiated learning.

littlelegs dd may have made expected progress from junior school entry data.

However, as indigo says - she's is a bit behind, although its odd for writing at this level to be above reading. Does her comprehension let her down? Are they giving any special interventions for the maths and reading?

Are the Y6 levels you quote teacher assessments or results of tests?

TBH I think dd's sats have been inflated throughout school, not just year 2. Her previous junior school doesn't even have a child working at level 3 in year 5/6, whereas the one she goes to now have almost a 1/4 of the children from the school at that level (with various reasons like death, change in family, behavioural issues etc).

Oooops, sorry Reading is 3a and writing is 3b

They are doing nothing to help her as she's 'doing so well'!!!!!!! :(

Those quoted are actual tests . . Just noticed they've got this years mock sats for English at a 3 - what on earth is that??

OP posts:
Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 16:03

mrzWed 04-Apr-12 15:35:30

If your daughter has only been there since Sept do you know what her levels were when she left her previous school?

If she arrived at very low levels and has made progress that could explain why the school is happy but it would indicate that the previous school has let her down.

Previous Levels were:

Y2 Y3 Y4 Y5

2c 2c 2a 3b Reading
2c 2b 3c 3a Writing
2c 2b 2b 3b Maths

And I would definitely agree the previous school let her down. Whilst I agree she has improved, slightly. It's definitely not as good as present school is saying.

OP posts:
Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 16:08

BecarooooWed 04-Apr-12 15:39:52

Agree with indigo and mrz

The old school could well have inflated her Y2 SATS scores...she should have been assessed after starting at this new school - i.e. before her Y6 SATS - perhaps you could ask for those scores and decide what her progress has been accordingly?

I've just posted what level she was at when leaving previous school, but her present school are now saying that she was only at level 2 (which I don't believe). When we had parents evening in October we were told she's scored level 3 and now it's changed to level 2?!?!?!

Therefore, over the course of 4 years very little :( progress has been made.

OP posts:
Original poster
littlelegsmum · 04/04/2012 16:11

LeeCoakleyWed 04-Apr-12 15:48:46

Can you afford a tutor for a while? Someone new who could see where the gaps are and equip her with the basic skills she needs for secondary. How did you feel she was progressing at her old school? Did they never discuss her progress at parents' evenings?

We will try and help her as much as possible and just need to find her a tutor. In fact we've just booked her in for a full assessment of abilities as we would like to inform the High school of exact abilities, not forced abilities. Because she was very quite, pleasant and helpful child, they focussed more on that and when we did question, they would skirt around it but we made ourselves believe they would tell us if they were worried. Gosh, i'm feeling like such a bad mum now.

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 04/04/2012 16:13

Blaming schools and trying to unpick who lied to you first isn't going to help your DD.

It's fairly easy to work out what level your DD is at in reading and maths, as you can buy practice SATs papers and get her to do a test. (Writing is far harder to evaluate)

But - you know she's behind. What you can't decide is what to do about it.

What you need to do is make a plan as to how you are going to help her.

mrz · 04/04/2012 16:15

It's very interesting that she has made 2 sub levels progress per year at her previous school Hmm

LeeCoakley · 04/04/2012 16:51

You are not a bad mum!