'new' grammar schools in kent...

[oliverreed]

well, not technically. The local authority have been given the go-ahead for two (I think) annexe grammar schools in Sevenoaks. Gove is surely rubbing his hands with glee. I agree with the decision as pressure on places in this area is causing a lot of heartache for many families whose children are travelling a long way, but is it paving the way for the creation of new grammar schools.
Would be interested to hear your thoughts?

If you mean kids with parents who are teachers r academics are prbobaly on average brighter than kids with parents who are shop assistants etc, well that's kind of sel-evident, isn't it. That's why their parents became teachers etc - because they were good at exams and helping other people pass them. and probably have kids who are likewise. it doesn't mean they have unfairly bought privilege over the shop assistant, just that genetics will out to a degree.

Ok. fSM eligibility in grammar schools 2% in our bit of Kent. In the overall school population it's 17%.

The argument that grammar schools are a tool of social mobility is a non starter.

seekerSun 01-Apr-12 13:19:13

"And I can assure you, there is practically no social mobility in the system in Kent. Occasionally a middle class child fails. But it is incredibly rare for a working class child to pass."

Not the case in this part of Kent, IME.

@seeker not being in the top 23% does not automatically make you a failure. Why do you insist on labelling young people who do not meet the selection criteria for grammar school as failures? Do you do that to young people who don't meet the selection criteria for sports teams (usually many more than 77%)?

Not it isn't. Reread my previous two posts.

class and income are two different things despite your attempts to conflate them. A previous poster has stated that they are on benefits but from a nice-middle class professional background.

Free school meals do not measure class and only measure a particular type of unwaged background - they would nt capture the shop assistant or the teacher.

And ignores the fact completely that the rich but uneducated businessman might pay for his kids to go private.

Find a rather subtler measure please, or define your terms a lot more closely.

very happy about this.

I've had a debate with someone about this on Twitter. I have mixed feelings about the Kent grammar system, it isn't perfect, and have my own views about completely re-organising the education system- but then neither is the comprehensive system perfect in the rest of the country, where wealthier families can crowd out poorer families to attend good schools.

If you are operating a grammar system, then why not make sure you have enough places for all who pass the Kent test?

That is what this is about. A local grammar campus so that kids who do take and pass the Kent test don't have to travel 25 miles a day to go to school. End of.

"But it is incredibly rare for a working class child to pass."

Not the case in this part of Kent, IME."

Exactly - they pass, then they get offered a place in Dover or Folkestone - hmm, useful. Which is why grammar places are required in Sevenoaks.

I think the ideal solution would be

(A) wide ranging system of grammars, in every area - mix of single sex and mixed for people who like both

(B) good comps with good non-academic options also for the less academic and focus on high vocational achievements to be rewarded - nationally, in the press etc

(C) tuition for all kids in last year of primaries so no disadvantage for the poor

(D) range of grammar exams and strengths not just one so a child with poor maths might still get into a schol that tested on VR or vv as not all 'bright' kids are equally good across the board

And

(E) Avoid the potcode lottery - ensure kids who live in poor areas as well as rich have access to equally good schools.

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/mar/31/grammar-school-expansion-kent-town
That's why selection unbalances education

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/mar/31/grammar-school-expansion-kent-town

oops

Breadandbutter, what you are describing is exactly what they have, or try their best to have in Northern Ireland so iit is entirely possible.

So do academies and free schools, by draining money from other schools, which are not "on policy".

Knole might be a really good option, but at the moment it's a really new one. and it's an academy, which I don't agree with anyway. By the time DD1 is considering secondary schools in a few years we will look at it.

From that Guardian article:

"I'm not campaigning to change the system, that would be shouting into the wind. I'm not campaigning for selective schools in the rest of the country, I'm just campaigning to try and make the best of the system we are in for our children."

ie. Sevenoaks didn't have thegrammar facilities any other Kent town did. That Is All.

Nomore
You are not alone in not wanting academies

JuliaScurr - what do you mean by your comment "That's why selection unbalances education " - the article shows the point of view of the head of the other local school that stands to lose pupils - hardly unbiased.

i'd be interested to hear why local parents want anther local grammar - which they clearly do - if this schol is as good as they say. Just assuming all the parents only want the grammar for social cachet is patronising and not backed up by any evidence.

I wanted my dd to go to a grammar school so she could stop being bored because all the lessons were too easy for her and s that she could have like-minded friends who enjoyed academia, enjoyed discussing books etc.

It's not so much that we want another grammar B&B, we just want places available locally as a satelite campus to an existing grammar, instead of our kids travelling 25 miles a day.

Exactly. But the point is, you want them to a grammar school.

The old boys school that was subsumed into Knole Academy had a terrible reputation esp on discipline. I think it's a "wait and see" for me as it's so new. But as I said, I don't agree with academies.

scarlettsmummy - loved yur posts, by the way. Agree with you 100%.

The point is, there is a grammar system in Kent so Sevenoaks pupils need equal access to it.

Plenty of working class kids at my ds' W Kent grammar, most of them from the working class town the school is situated in.
I think the 11 plus is unfair and divisive too, but because I wanted ds to be able to study two MFLs to GCSE there were no local options. No comprehensive in LB Greenwich offers two MFLs to GCSE. Not very comprehensive then really.