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Original poster

'new' grammar schools in kent...

567 replies

oliverreed · 30/03/2012 18:44

well, not technically. The local authority have been given the go-ahead for two (I think) annexe grammar schools in Sevenoaks. Gove is surely rubbing his hands with glee. I agree with the decision as pressure on places in this area is causing a lot of heartache for many families whose children are travelling a long way, but is it paving the way for the creation of new grammar schools.
Would be interested to hear your thoughts?

OP posts:
EBDteacher · 30/03/2012 19:48

I read that in the paper too. Think there is another LEA trying to do the same- Teignmouth?

QZ · 30/03/2012 21:11

What is an annexe grammar please?
Is this similar to where 1 head runs 2 schools, usually a v good one, and one that needs assistance, as happens in some places?

debka · 30/03/2012 21:14

What's wrong with grammar schools?

EBDteacher · 30/03/2012 21:30

Nothing debka, but the estblishment of new ones is banned. Now there is some kind of loop hole.

Don't know the exact politics. Someone will be along with details.

ReallyTired · 30/03/2012 21:38

The present comprehensive system in its present form is shit. Bright children in deprived areas are denied the opportunity to do 3 seperate sciences or 2 modern lanagues or study shakesphere. Or even worse academically able children are forced to do completely useless BTECs at our local sink comp.

I don't like the eleven plus but selection by postcode is not fair either. I would like comprehensives to use banding to ensure that a bright child can be in a decent top set with kids of similar ablity and follow a grammar school curriculum. I think catchment areas need to be set to ensure a good social mix as well. I also want the ablity for children to change between the grammar and secondary modern streams if a child is a late developer or can't keep up in the grammar stream.

seeker · 30/03/2012 21:44

The grammar schools system is hideous and divisive- it is just mind numbingly depressing that the Tory bastards are finding ways to introduce grammar schools by the back door. Just grim.

EBDteacher · 30/03/2012 21:44

Sounds like you need to get into central politics then ReallyTired

exoticfruits · 30/03/2012 21:45

Grammar schools have become a way for the middle class to get their DCs the best education for free. They 'buy' their place with tutors etc. I wouldn't mind if it was truly selective, and no one could prepare,but they don't work that way.

Original poster
oliverreed · 30/03/2012 21:46

Sorry, no good at doing links but am sure someone will be along soon who can! The story has run in several of the papers today. Basically a grammar or 'super-selective' grammar will open and run an annexe of their main school. This is likely to be one of the tunbridge wells grammar or 'super-selective' schools. It will have the same selection criteria. Gove is apparently keen to reinstate grammar schools in all areas but has been thwarted by legislation that prevents this. Bucks are also looking into this.
In the Sevenoaks case, a parent garnered several thousand signatures which forced a full council debate and they voted almost unanimously to allow these 'annexes' as children are currently doing journeys of up to two hours each way to get to school.

OP posts:
seeker · 30/03/2012 21:49

And as some ghastly Tory said on h radio this morning, obviously there need to be good technical and vocational schools for the other 77%.

EBDteacher · 30/03/2012 21:54

Yet you have used grammar schools for your own DC seeker?

Original poster
oliverreed · 30/03/2012 21:55

well yes exoticfruits Sevenoaks is not exactly noted for being a deprived area - another example of those sharp elbows! But seeing as Kent offers selective grammars, it does seem unfair that the children from this area pass the exam but then have no school within an hour or so's travelling time.

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 30/03/2012 22:05

Turning all Kent into comprehensive education would solve it, oliverreed!

seeker · 30/03/2012 22:05

Yes I have for one of them. I live in a grammar school area. I have no choice. Does that make my opinion less valid? I have seen the system from the inside.

duchesse · 30/03/2012 22:06

My sister's children may well benefit from this! She is far from sharp-elbowed but her kids are bright and in state primary at the moment. She has no money for tutoring so will have to rely on the school and their natural ability to shine through. The state secondary schools in Sevenoaks are not brilliant because so many people whose children do not make it into grammar school go private instead and there seems is little incentive to improve them for the more able. And as has been mentioned before, grammar school pupils are currently trekking down to Tonbridge- opening these "annexes" can only be a good thing for them. I just hope it happens in time for my nephew who is currently in year 5.

QZ · 30/03/2012 22:08

77%?
95.5% here Hmm

Honestly- a child cannot sit all three sciences in a mainstream state secondary school? Anywhere/everywhere? Shock

EBDteacher · 30/03/2012 22:09

Nobody forced your child into a grammar seeker. If you oppose them you could have chosen not to sit your child for the 11+.

QZ · 30/03/2012 22:10

seeker- surely entering the tests is optional for all children? Confused

duchesse · 30/03/2012 22:10

Very difficult around here. Most secondaries seem unable to fit 3 sciences and a modern language into the timetable. Hardly any schools scoring more than a miserable % on the English Baccalaureate measure (many below 10%)

TalkinPeace2 · 30/03/2012 22:12

??
before commenting further on Kent LEAs attempts to make its average results less dire,
please compare Kent (Grammar, Secondary Modern) with Hampshire (Comp)
streaming in well funded comps will ALWAYS be better than random divisive segregation on one day at age 11

Original poster
oliverreed · 30/03/2012 22:12

reallytired, I like that idea too - it does seem crazy for a childs ability and school career to be set in stone on the evidence of one 11+ test. Why not at least give children who may be late developers another chance at 13+.

OP posts:
gladders · 30/03/2012 22:14

seeker - if you are that anti grammar schools, then vote with your feet and send your kids to the local secondary. your opinion is always less valid if you are using the system you claim to hate.

exoticfruits · 30/03/2012 22:15

I think that if you happen to live in a grammar school area you can't hold your bright DC back just because you don't like the system!

Original poster
oliverreed · 30/03/2012 22:16

I am all in favour of fully comprehensive areas in principle but aren't there lots of studies that show children who attend grammars consistently 'outperform' and have eventual better outcomes at university than those in the 'top streams' at comps? Not sure what this is about - better teaching, less crowd control, more motivated children?? not sure ....

OP posts:
seeker · 30/03/2012 22:16

Inane been torn to shreds on this subject before. However, just to be clear. In the area where I live there are no comprehensive schools, only grammars and high schools. 23% of children go to grammar schools, 77% go to high schools. It so happens that my dd was in the 23%. So she went to the grammar school.

Why does this have any relevance to my attitude towards the selective system?