Independent education: arguments in favour?

[Notnowcato]

I had a good state education in a single sex grammar school. I wasn't tutored in any way for the 11-plus and so there was no pressure about passing it. I loved learning, the company of my peers, my teachers etc. My husband had a similar experience. Before our children reached school age, we had no thoughts of doing anything other than sending our three children to our catchment-area state schools.

Sadly, after six years of state primary schools, and having visited all of the nearest state secondaries, I am depressed by what is ahead of us if we stay in the state system. The main problems seem to me to be: business managers rather than educationalists leading schools, semi-illiterate communications (head teachers' PowerPoint presentations, web sites, printed material) revealing ill-educated staff, terrible lack of maintenance of the buildings and facilities, poorly equipped classrooms and libraries, ridiculously narrow choices at GCSE and A level, absurd rules about wearing blazers at all times because this 'makes [sic] the children respect their school', the compulsion to take GCSEs in years 9 and 10 as well as 11, the sheer size of the schools ... and so on.

So ... my husband and I are starting to explore the idea of independent schools. Well, I am. My husband keeps asking why anyone would want to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds (we have three children) when education is provided by the state at no cost up to the age of 18. If you had the task of convincing a curmudgeonly old man that the cost would be justified what would you say? What are the main arguments in favour of private schools? Or don't you think there are any, in which case, please relight my enthusiasm for the state sector.

If it helps: DD is highly academic (especially literacy), quiet, well-behaved, cheerful, gets on with life; DS1 is arty, sensitive, bright, definitely not sporty; DS2 is 4 so can't say much except that he is old for his year and seems perfectly normal!

Sorry for the long post.

"bright motivated kids" are fine - oh good, what about the rest of them? A system of state education paid for out of universal taxation which meets the needs of a minority only can hardly be said to be satisfactory.

Weddleway, can I ask if you were privately educated ? Having a 5 year old who was just doing ok in a normal state school just would nt bother me. Parental involvement is far more important at that age. I don't think it's terribly good for people to beleive they are super special tbh

Ok I apologise for having (and having been ) a bright motivated kids. I am talking from a purely personal viewpoint that for my dcs I cannot see a good reason for forking out £200,00 for a private education. I do not think the school system is perfect and if I had other children oro ther options.I might consider it. Dh thinks.we.should.consider it anyway

naughtymummy there are good and bad in the inde

naughtymummy there are good and bad in the independent sector as in the state sector. When I look at my DS boarding school I feel like I've moved to another planet in comparison with even a top performing comp.

How sohappygardening ? And is it in a good way.a planet populated by 13-18year olds is surely a strange place. How much resemblence to the world outside does it have. Do they do there own laundry or cook for example. Most children of that ahe would be doing so at home.

Age obviously

No they dont cook wash or clean but lets face it weve got pur whole lives to learn to do this. But wht they receive is an intellectually stimulating environment And tht this is the only phase in their lives when they have the time to indulge in this because they don't have to worry about other thing; that I know because I've looked tht is not available in any state school however selective.

naughtymummy My DD who went to boarding school certainly did her own washing. She amazingly is able to use the washing machine at home and cook too. She was surprised at how many people in their first year at university had never done laundry or cooked for themselves before from both state and private schools. (admittedly a small sample size)

I disagree that DSs and DDs of that age do all their own washing at home all the time as it is not an efficient use of energy etc. That is not to say if they wanted something clean when a load of washing was being put on that they wouldn't wash it themselves.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. IMO 16 year olds benefit fromm a college enviroment with plenty of intellectual stimulation.Also from earning money and learning other lifeskills. Dh was loocked up from 13-18 and he found it quite restricting particularly post 16. I found my life (including a state 6th form far more stimulating at the same age. I would also argue it prepared me for real life much better.

That was to happy garden btw. Glad to hear it ggt.

"I don't think it's terribly good for people to beleive they are super special tbh"

dd2 is at an independent school. she has no concept that she is 'super special' - why should she? she goes to the school we chose for her (she is 5), which we chose for various reasons.

as for cooking/washing etc - when I was at my (non selective) independent school, we had to sort the laundry, and do duty in the laundry room on a rota basis (while it was all collected/lost property claimed) - not quite the same as me bunging it in the actual machine now, but a lot more time consuming! much easier now to just shove it in and close the door than to sort out (what felt like) hundreds of odd socks and allocate to correct pigeon holes etc.

My DS (along with others) sweeps the dining room after lunch most days at his Prep school, as it gives him an extra 10 house-points a week. The Prefects and Sports Captains there are responsible for washing clothes put into Lost Property.

At the boarding schools we've looked at, each "house" had its own kitchen with oven, toaster, microwave, iron and washing machine. Looking after yourself seemed to be the norm.

Why would a person growUp thinking they are special if they have been showered with attention and praise for mediocre effort from a young age. If they have been carefully tutored in small groups for exams. IME these students truggle in a year group of 150 at university and expect special treatment. They are nearly alway privately educated

So the boys cook for each other diabolo ?

lol @ 'mediocre effort' - that goes for every person in an independent school does it?

my point is more that dd2 sees it as her school. no more, no less. it is not 'better' than the state school just down the road, just 'different' (as in a different uniform, different class structure, etc)

the only people I saw struggle at university were the ones who were unable to structure their own learning. they came from both state and independent backgrounds, and it was often impossible to tell which.

naughty - my DS knows he's not special. Lucky, yes, but not special.

What kind of schools do you have experience of who shower attention and praise on mediocrity? That was one of the reasons I took my DS out of a state school where "everyone was a winner"

It certainly doesn't happen at his Prep. If you're not good enough, you don't get picked.

you're changing the goalposts now, naughtymummy - you asked if any independent schools had setups where the children did their own cooking and washing. you have been told this does happen, and now you want, what - dinner party catering? cooking for the whole year group? (there was a group of us at school who would cook together, after a sports club. sometimes totally together, other times one or two of us for the rest of the group - depended on who had more prep/closest deadlines etc)

I struggled in a group of 150 university students despite being 1 of 40 at my comp.
University is a whole new world in which plenty sink and many swim no matter where they have come from.
Private school actually comes into it's own in the real world where believing you are something special goes a long long way. Ideally you'll have the substance to back it up, but that's not always essential.

naughty mummy. I guess I would be less inclined to worry about the privately educated people at university who are struggling and worry instead about the huge numbers of kids who are state educated and who are not encouraged to or fail to make the grade to enter university in the first place. I suppose it's just a question of priorities and perspectives.

naughty obviously this was for snacks, extra meals etc. I think you are deliberately being obtuse.

No they don't cook wash or clean but they receive a unique intellectually stimulating education in an intellectually stimulating environment. This is likely to be the only time in their lives when they have the luxury to indulge in this of opportunity. As we get older other things take priority paying bills mortages etc. I know that this opportunity does not exist to this extent in the state sector even in highly academically successful schools because I've looked.

Not dinner party catering no. In the real world one has to feed oneself as well as going to work, making sure you have clean clothes etc. I think any 18 year old who has not been prepared for all aspects has ben diserviced. My dh still resents the fact he was not prepared for life like this. They thought the boys brains.should be on highwr things. FWIW I started cooking for friends /boyfriends at 16

so why the question re: cooking for the other boys?

diabolo and I both stated that cooking was 'done' at school (in the past and now), and you responded by asking whether that was for other people too. odd.

from 16+ at my school, we were housed in groups within cottages - laundry was our own affair, and we could cook all meals if we so desired. the laundry duties I was talking about earlier were from the age of 14.

I completely agree that any teenager shoudl be learning to do these things, but the opportunities are there at a lot of the independent schools.

Heswall I am lost for words you have just articulated my darkest fears about private education