why did you choose private school at reception?

[mumat39]

Hello

there are so many comments on Mumsnet about the fact that Private school from reception age is unnecessary so I was wondering why those parents that chose the private route did so?

We have a few good state primaries locally but all go to Y2 only. there seem to be fewer junior schools and even fewer secondary.

There is a good private school nearby that goes from reception through to a level, so for a number of reasons that is the one I'm leaning towards. But as there are so many views that inthe early years its not money well spent, i'm windering why this one is still popular and what ultimately are the reasons for parents to choose private over state.

I am genuinely confused so any views would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

Well said Bonsoir.
I am not going to get in to the debate about private or state education that's a personal choice but i thought i should say something after reading some of the comments on this thread.
Sir Alan Sugar might not have the accent nor class but her majesty decided to knight him. Xenia may be you should be an adviser to her majesty on deciding who should be honored depending on their upbringing, accents, weight etc.
If you look back in history individuals from humble origins have been more successful than the ones who are born with silver spoon. In the 21st Century individuals are not judged or rewarded by their class/weight etc.

I think that of course we can all point to poeple from humble origins who have succeeded (I count myself among those folk) but...ppretending that the UK/world is just a fluffy ball of equal opportunity is misguided at best, patronising at worst.

What Xenia says about accent/class/schooling may be very very unpalatable for most of us, but it is sadly true.

The vast majority of people in positions of wealth/power/influence are from a certain backgorund, have a certain type of schooling and speak a certain way. Alan Sugar may have made a bob or two and have a telly program but he's basically a landlord. He doesn't run any large companies or employ significant numbers of people or have any influence on business generally.

I am not snobby. My great grandfather was a miner and all people are equal etc. However I state facts and if there are comprehensive school parents out there conning their precious l ittle darlings into thinking that class, dress, accent have no impact on job interviews then you are lulling them into a very false sense of security for a wide raft of what are usually the better paid professions and jobs.

Now it may not matter if you want to join the police or the socialist republic of XYZ local council but it is a massive issue if the people with whom you will deal will expect yo uto look and speak in a certain way. It is a dead easy game to play as anyone can change how they dress and how they speak but it is a game you need to know exists before you can choose to play it or ignore it.

"In the 21st Century individuals are not judged or rewarded by their class/weight etc." This would a brilliant thread title for mumsnet surely because it is so so wrong. Fat peioople arn less and do worse at work. If you are fat you are more likely to be working class. There is more class discrimination than even sex in the UK etc etc on and on you could go. We gave up forcing state school pupils to speak properly as it's not PC and as a result social mobility has plummeted.

I suppose the difference is whether you want the privately

Educated (primary) or privately coached (secondary).

The middle class complacancy on MN is breathtaking.

Haven't people noticed that the job market is shrinking while the pool of candidates is ever expanding, particularly from overseas?

Telling our DC that appearance, how one speaks etc doesn't matter is so unfair.

I suspect one reason to pay fees is not just the much better exam results but also the fact the private sector won't hold back to the same extent in suggesting haitch, you was , what you wear and if you're very fat might not be very helpful when job searching and if you can look people in the eye, wear a tie etc it can help.

Lucky those of us who pay or who in the know because we can advantage our children yet further.

Mind you these days any teenager can go on a web site and watch youtube videos of people whose jobs they would like to have to see how they speak, what they say, what they wear. It's not rocket science.

so agree with you Wordfactory.

No it isn't rocket science Xenia.

I worry about the mental capacity of anyone who would send their DC to a private school so that they are assured the teachers "won't hold back to the same extent in suggesting haitch, you was , what you wear and if you're very fat might not be very helpful when job searching and if you can look people in the eye, wear a tie etc it can help" Could you not depart this knowledge yourself??

QuickLookBusy, depends whether you are the sole parent battling against the grain or not by the time you get to teenage years where this stuff starts to matter. At Ds's school many of the parents are brought in at numerous points along the journey (career seminars, mock interviews etc) to help reinforce the message though. Of course the parent's involvement is key, but teenagers will have influences from many sources. Parents have little control in most of those, other than of course which school they have chosen.

Locally the cuts in council spending has meant that the previous decent council-run careers advice service is being more or less axed.

Comprehensives do a lot of career seminars/mock interviews/public speaking courses/meetings with parents about options etc. All this is available at my DDs comprehensive. If DD starts to work below her targets, she has to meet with her teacher and I get a phonecall.

DD2 is in upper sixth and we are have numerous meetings and help with personal statements for uni.

DD1 had 5 offers to choose from, all RG unis.

DD2 has just had 4 offers from RG unis for a very oversubscribed subject.

These things are not restricted to private education and you are very out of touch if you think they are.

Clearly your dd isn't at any of my local comprehensive schools. And you are very naive if you don't think that the cuts that are taking place won't affect the children coming through the system now. Parents who have had children who have gone to Oxbridge/RG etc from the local CofE comprehensive have been astounded as to how little career support their younger children are getting in comparison. There simply isn't the support available for arranging multiple mock interviews for each student let alone "numerous meetings and help with personal statements". The cuts have been deep and savage, and if they haven't come in your area yet, they're probably on their way.

QLB of course parents can impart such information if they have it. But not all parents do.

And by the looks of things on MN, many parents think the world is just waiting with baited breath to give thier DC each and every opportunity no matter how they speak or look.

And whilst the anecdotal evidence of your own DC is interesting to you, the stats speak for themselves.

Dc from bog-standard comps are absurdly under represented at Oxbridge and other RG universities.
These establishments are packed to the rafters with students from independent schools, grammars and the top performing state schools in the country.

Which is utterly ridiculous considering the vast vast majority of DC don't attend any of these.
Clearly the messages are not being given at school or they are not getting through.

Ladymuck, thank you for trying to scaremonger.

What you fail to understand is that teachers do this as part of their job. It occurs during tutor times and independent study time. The numerous meetings and help with personal statements/uni choices will carry on.

I still think a lot of parents sending their DC to private school have a very outdated view of non private. Saying Dc will not get a good professional job because they aren't privatley educated, that they do not speak correctly, will not know how to dress, don't have good career advise and many other stereotypes is the same as me saying all privately educated Dc are arrogant entitled twits who speak very loadly despite the fact they rarely know what they are talking about.

Well why then, if all is so rosy, are so few pupils from ordinary bog-standard comps going to top tier universities? Why then are they so woefully under represented in the law, medicine, the media, politics, finance and business?

OK, but there is a huge difference in having a mock interview with a teacher, and with a partner at a Magic Circle firm, or an accountancy firm, or indeed with anyone who is involved in current graduate selection processes? Of course some people leave careers to go into teaching in later life, but most have little experience of real life graduate interviews except presumably for teaching?

Scaremongering is unintentional. I think that you are being rather optimistic in thinking that there will never be any reallocation or reduction of resources in secondary education, but time will tell. Obviously many people have very few options available to them.

Anyway, I'm at risk of dragging this severely off topic as this is about reception choices. I haven't seen anyone list their primary/prep school on an application, and it would probably have been binned if I had on the basis that I can't read something too long or irrelevant. That said I can still remember the last time we appointed someone from a comprehensive school to a position in our department (yes, I know that we're in the 21st century - I still have to point out to my male colleagues that just because an applicant is female and in their early 30s we are not allowed to reject her just for this). My husband is fairly sure that if he were to have graduated now (Cambridge, law) then he probably wouldn't have been given a role by his current employer (he was interviewing graduates yesterday) - the degree of international competition is increasing each year, and the bar is set far higher than in our day.

I'm talking about my experience Word, about my DC, just as you are.

I haven't sent my DC to private school yet they are doing very well as are their friends and cousins. The thread is about private schools/state and I am just trying to ensure anyone reading it doesn't go away with the impression that if you send your Dc to state school they will never get anywhere which is what some people on here try suggest.

Yes there is an imbalance and universities and schools are being made to change this, they have to attract more state school pupils or they will not be allowed to charge more than £6000 for fees. I think this might just be the incentive needed for them to spead their nets.

The City is packed with hrd working people from all kinds of backgrounds. I live in a really mixed area surrounded by people from all over the world and what was have in common tends to be a massive work ethic and being quite bright. However it is harder for some if they won't fit in in some environments. I even get it with my children sometimes - incoherence, speaking so I cannot understand them, not clear diction etc etc. It something all young people need to work on.

I am at the coal face of the job application process for new graduates having had 3 children graduate fairly recently one after the other which is what happens when you have three children under 4 and roll on 20 years.

My mother used to help her classes of 40 working class children learn to speak properly in the 1950s and I am not so sure state school teachers these days woudl intervene and say you don't say X you should say Y and that's a shame for the children.

Also it's not just university. It's how they do after that, what expectation for career and pay they have and all the other factors which go into what kind of job they take afterwards.

I was telling someone today (not one of mine) to go on youtube and watch videos of people who work in that place. Look at how they speak. Find connections. Look at their clothes. Look at what they say of course and I would never ever suggest that your accent will get you anywhere if you don't have your string of As and good brain and great personal skills and knowledge of your subject - people come to me because I like to think I'm the best at what I do in the UK, not my voice nor even my chest although I don't think they do me any harm.

It is a blood bath out there. May be not as many unemployed as when I first started looking with my 100 applications in 1982 but still pretty bad. It is only very exceptional people who get any jobs at all. People even are fighting tooth and claw over unpaid internships.

AHi QLB

I wish we lived in an area like you as it would definitely make my decision easier.

Everyone, I went to a state school, left fairly articulate but with very poor A levels. I should have done better and wish I had left a confident young person. We had no careers advice, unless you knew exactly what you wanted to do. I was one of the bright kids and was expected to do well. As a result I was just left to it and I struggled. I ended up doing a hnd and Before I stopped to have kids, I was earning well as a contractor.

The way I speak has held me in good stead. This was down to my teachers and the fact that they would correct us in our speech in a non aggressive way. My parents worked in factories, and didn't speak much English. I speak well in my mother Tongue and that is down to my family. I still struggle with a lack of confidence and really believe that I could have achieved so much more had I had more opportunities especially in languages, music and sport. Being left to get on with it at school and basically being ignored are the reasons for my self confidence issues.

I loved school but it's only in later life that I've been aware of what a profound effect those few years at school had on me as a person.

My DD is very like me and I want her to have fun, speak well, have more opportunities and to grow up a confident level headed sensible person, who is encouraged to be the best that she can be. I hope that between school and home we'll achieve this for her. I also want her to have as many opportunities through the school so that at weekends we can do other things as a family, after of course homework has been done. I also believe she'll do better in a single sex school.

I asked why people chose private at reception to make sure really. This was not meant to be a thread about the state vs private debate which has been discussed at length on MN many many times. (sorry QLB)

Before I am attacked for saying I'd like my kids to speak well, I think English is such a beautiful expressive language and I don't have any issues with accents or class or any other way of grouping people. I am often so surprised and horrified by the way people speak. Some seem to find it necessary to use the f word every other word in a sentence, others just shout aggression at their tired kids when out shopping, some can't speak without using double negatives ALL the time. I find it genuinely sad that often I have noticed this from people from families who have been born and brought up in this country. I am equally surprised,pleasantly this time when I meet people who speak really well when they arrived in this country a couple of years previously not speaking a word of English. Those people often have strong accents but who cares. To me it's important what is said and how thoughts and feelings are conveyed that is important and o believe that if you speak well and clearly then no door will be closed to you.

Everyone who answered the original question, thankyou. You have been very helpful and I am grateful for your detailed responses. I feel more confident in my choice for my dc.

Everyone else who has replied, in particular to Xenia's reply, you have all also helped, including Xenia.

I have always felt like I should apologise for leaning towards the private option, but I do feel confident in my reasons and of course I hope my kids leave school with good passes in everything but like I said before other things are almost more important and as a result of this thread I think the fact that we'll have to go without things will be worth it.

Many Thanks again. I'm sending this from my phone so apologies for any silly typos. :)

We chose private

• because we could afford it
• because we didn't like the local state school we looked round (despite better facilities, bigger playground, swimming pool)
• because of class sizes

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask this question, but since there are so many well informed people, I am tempted to ask .. My DS has just been offered a reception (4+ entry) place at St. Martin's, Northwood and Northwood Prep and I am really struggling picking one of the two. I would highly appreciate if anyone has any views or suggestions for me to help me make this decision.

We started at state, and DS1 will be going onto a selective private (hopefully!) for Year 3. When he started in Reception, I was convinced he would stay until Year 6 then we would go private.

Although Reception was excellent, Year 1 was definitely a 'catch-up' yearvfor reading and numeracy. DS1 was very bored, and his job-share teachers were not interested in stretching him on. The footprint of the school is also very small, with no playing field. The boys at one point were banned from playing tag because they were banging into other pupils.

Year 2 is better, with a very enthusiastic NQT that DS1 would walk over hot coals for. Still, no applied work (maths) and only very basic English comprehension and verbal/non-verbal reasoning. PE is only once/week. 30% of the puils are EAL, and often come with mild behavioural problems.

I know it's disruptive for the rest of the school in terms of the mass Year 3 exodus, but ournlocal state has spectacularly failed my son and I can't wait for him to leave. I never thought I would say that.

We will probably choose private for reception for the following reasons:

• Class size. Local state schools all have 30 in reception and 34+ from year three.

• Like the private school best out of all (8) local schools (state and private) that we have visited: physical environment, work on the walls and in books, facilities (toys, books, food, classrooms etc), teaching and support staff, head.

• The school's nursery has been fab for DD1.

• DD2 is end of August baby.

• Wraparound childcare available.

• Personal hang-ups. I had a bad time for years at a "good" state primary school and want to try something else for my daughters.

• Don't like the direction of policy on education (funding, class-size, rhetoric). Private schools have more independence.

What always amazes me, as a foreigner here, on this tiny island, is how some people project a very perverse class/education situation that was somehow formed here to become so global and have so overwhelmingly forceful consequences.

This is related to Xenia posts, but also to private/state divide. Physists who won Nobel prizes in the UK are Russians. Half of IT people are Indian, Chinese, Romanian, whatever. Bright math / physics/ climate change students move to the US for funding. It s a global world, unless you plan to get stuck just in the UK, no one would ever care about your accent!

Who would care about an accent of a Harvard professor, ex-lad from Birmingham estate the first to go to university?

Then, these 'best jobs'!? What are these best jobs? Solicitors? Bankers? These are very boring jobs! Where are the scientists graduating from top indie schools? Where are the people who thrive for and create knowledge, art, human achievement? What is all this education for, if it only leads you to become a lawyer???

State education can be very bad here, but what is private good for if their aspiration can be formulated in a concept of 'best jobs' for which you need to dress a certain way and speak in a certain way? In my opinion, if you have to fit in like this, like in the army, these are the worst jobs.

Some opinion about England held on the continent speaks for it. I once read an account of English schooling which basically stated that there is no good education in England, because state education is designed to retain people from social climbing, whereas private education is designed to work out on building the character, accent and habits of the upper classes (and it is not about education in terms of achieving profound and transformatory knowledge). I thought that was a bit of an exaggeration written in times of Alan Turing being so bullied in his private school and failing to enter Oxford the first time. Now I come to think it's still true!!

Scary. It's like middle ages! Got to move out sooner or later...

olguis - excellent post.