Is it worth paying for prep school?

[MrsJAlfredPrufrock]

I paid/pay for my teens to go to a selective boys' day Snr school. Prior to that they went to our nearest state primary school and passed their entrance exams without coaching. My younger two (6 and4) are at a state primary (a different one to their brothers as we've moved, on paper it is massively better, in reality it's not) and I'm wondering if people think it's worthwhile paying for prep school. I used to think it wasn't but I'm beginning to wonder, especially for things like music and languages.

What are other people's experiences?

I know I didn't intend it ti be so long sorry!

Very, very interesting post HG. There is so much I would do differently it's positively embarrassing!

But I should have kept my kids out of school until Year 3/4 and taken them around the world with the focus on bilingualism, maybe even learning two foreign languages. I would spend most of the time home eding with a foreign tour happening nearer the age 7/8 mark as it's a waste of money before then. If I didn't do this then I'd definitely put them in a pre-prep as I think they learn virtually nothing for the first 2/3 years at primary. My choice of prep would be one without Saturday school and that also offered flexi boarding and I would choose a selective prep because my "apparently" gifted son who came from an unselective school is now two years behind the London day school system and couldn't get in anywhere so he's off to music school. Interestingly, when he did sit a computerised test for a senior school we were told he was capable of entry, but the prep schools only look at what a child can do on paper.

If I'd known about the tutoring companies in London that specifically tutor for Eton and Win scholarships then I wouldn't have been as laid back either. It's not statistically normal that in one year, 8 out of 14 scholars to a particular school came from only two London day schools! Thankfully schools offer virtually no monetary value with scholarships now but he would have been a strong candidate if I'd done things differently and kept a closer eye on him. Still, years of blissful ignorance has kept me sane. However I have totally let my other son down by being as ignorant as I was and it's gone past the point of tutoring him up to the standard required. He's too old, in too tired and our personalities clash in this area. Mmmm

Happygardening - v interesting post! Its so hard to know which prep schools are actually any good as it is so skewed by the parents (i.e. paying for tutors and/or being generally intelligent and successful themselves so child's success is not much to do with the school)...

I totally agree with you that the real winners from private schools are, frankly, those who would otherwise be middle of the road - an exceptionally talented child will probably be alright at the state down the road (and those are the children that are always quoted: "I/DD/DS etc went to the failing comp, got all As and a triple first from Oxbridge..").

Bottom line is that a good prep will genuinely prepare a child for a good public school. By that I mean in every sense. I certainly missed out on that when i went from state to private. Academically all was fine though in the long run, and now it is ancient history. But my primary education was virtually non-existent and I can see that my siblings who went to prep school (as my parents could afford it by then!) as opposed to state had a lot more fun and it was much more formative.

Actually, even though I say that academically I turned out fine, I STILL (age 29) feel lacking in some basics, such as basic French verbs (and I ended up doing a degree in French!), basic spelling (in English!) and Latin (which I had to basically cram to catch up in) and a knowledge of chronoligical English history, which my siblings got at prep school.

ps - excuse any typos - supoosedly busy at work!

"a good prep will genuinely prepare a child for a good public school"
of course it will but try and find one! I suspect that if you want something a little different perhaps "more specialised" would be a different term, e.g. preparation for St Pauls scholarship etc then you need to find a specialised prep school

Also, Colleger, I think that the London private schools are totally different to those anywehere else in the country, unless you are actively seeking a scholorship to Eton/Win etc. Out in the provinces, the really very good public schools are a lot less hard to get in to (as I say though, a scholorship to Eton et al is just as competitive)! One of the reasons we are now leaving London...... DD can, hopefully, go to a good school (think good provincial public schools, one tier below the fabulously famous top 10 or so) without the need for tutoring etc etc.

I know HG - that is the problem. Knowing which are the good ones! Best I have come across through friends and family are Sunningdales and Abberley Hall [sp?] - but they are all boys and all boarding (I think) - not an option for us.

One of the good ones we are considering does hone in on the preparation required for your chosen destination.

I didn't know it was unusual to do this. Sounds good now.

You need to decide which senior school you want your children to go to and then go from there. Go and visit and ask which prep school is the 'feeder'.

I think your right legalyblond your child will easily get into a "good provincial public schools, one tier below the fabulously famous top 10" from a good county prep. The other thing that surprised me was that although many of those senior schools state that they want for example 60% at CE they are still taking children who don't get these marks. Its bum on seats in the age of financial meltdown. In fact if you read the destinations of leavers on most prep school websites that is where most are going. When I looked into it a couple of years ago I found that few have a history of sending boys to Win Coll and that only a handful to Eton on a regular basis.
You should be wary of the leavers destination on school websites. My friends prep (London) clearly states on its website that it regularly sends boys to St Pauls but as it finishes at yr 6 and St Pauls starts at yr 8 and its completely non selective this is obviously not the case! Ask for specifics exactly how many and when.

NOONE fails Common Entrance! It is an absolute piece of piss (sorry)

Some interesting and useful posts above.
I think that it is best to remember the MN mantra: all shall be well.

If your DC is a genius then they will rise to the top, no matter what. The trouble is that you realise, as time goes on, that the exceptional really are a very rare ... um ... exception. DS was very good at sport when younger, noticably better than his peers. We even thought that he might make a living out of it. Then you start to meet all the others who are noticeably better than their peers too and realise that there are an awful lot of them out there and only so many places to fill in a county or national team ...

Most of us are not exceptional but still make a living. Your DC may not get a starred first at Oxbridge and earn mega-bucks in the City (have you read the other thread running? to earn mega-bucks you usually have to work insanely hard) but if they earn enough and are happy then that should satisfy you. I know that I stressed at the changeover from Primary to Secondary but, really, they all shake out as they should in the end. Neither DC got into the super selective Grammar and went comp instead, but both are still on track to go to a RG University.

also they often put leavers destinations over the last 5 years or something equally obfuscating! Our prep produces an end of year mag which has a section saying where ALL the children have gone - much more useful to get a real idea of where they go (90% to the senior part of same school)

I would be interested to have your opinions on this: My dc went to a prep (not well known, but one I was happy with) and took CE. Ds got over 90% in most subjects (99% in maths and 98 in physics). He is now at a selective grammar where they complain he isn't working hard enough. He says he is bored in maths and physics as it's really slow. I don't want to upset the teachers (of course), but what should I say..?!

Dd got around 80% in most and is at the same school now and so far ok.

Having looked at the GCSE syllabus, I see that they covered almost all of it whilst at prep. Is this a common issue?

I worry I should have sent ds at least to a more academic secondary.

i have heard this problem time and time again with prep then grammar. I do think preps are 2 years ahead of most states and yes he is probably finding it dull (also grammars seem to really mollycoddle children tightly through subjects rather than encourage the breadth and independent learning from most prep schools - completely my own opinion). It should improve by year 9 when the state grammar children have 'caught up' and it all shakes down.

One of the ones we went to had a board with every student for last two years and all the offers they received including scholarships.

I can't bear fudging, they need to be clear.

In 6 years at prep only one "failed" CE that was into a highly selective boys boarding school. Most preps who don't have senior schools attached have a school where a significant number go. Its usually "local" this is because even if you want full boarding there is no longer any appetite for sending "Johny" to school 200 miles away. Parents are much more involved in their children's education/games/theatre productions than they were 30 years ago.

grafiti - the grammar starts in yr 9. They were at prep until 13, hence CE!

Oh, and additionally madly, a good 90% of the kids are from private - so it must be the same for all of them, I imagine.

oh yes duh sorry! Shame he is not finding it very stimulating.

Ah thank you all. There is no perfect solution is there?

I don't actually have any particular senior school in mind for them. I'd be really happy for them both to follow their big brothers and go to St Albans School (and in the case of my daughter St Albans High School for Girls). I can't imagine we would ever use a big name boarding school, or indeed any boarding school. I think we're day school types, who value a knowledge of Pokemeon and Arsenal as on a par with the dactyl hexameter as displayed in Virgil's Aeneid.

But I still don't know how to distinguish a good school from a poor school, whether state or private.

Aldwickbury told me that no boy has ever got less than 65% in CE from that school. But lots go to very silly schools from there. Perhaps not everyone sits CE? I just don't understand how prep schools work at all.

Is there a league table of prep schools?
Are their CE scores published?
How do you know if they are selective or just pretendy selective?
How on earth do they select at 4?

DS2 was offered a place at yr 9 into one of the countries top performing grammar schools. The apparition of expensive holidays, a trip to the dentist, designer clothes, larger bars of chocolate and a regular personal trainer to burn of those chocolate bars appeared before my eyes. Ignoring the fact that it was an 80 mile round trip and that was before I driven him 8 miles to the bus which I couldn't be late for (not my strong point). I suspected that like Hullygully DS he would be bored. He is very academic hence the reason the school suddenly found a space for him much to the surprise of other parents, and ultimately I felt that he was going to be better off in his even more selective senior school I was right he loves it.
I do think part of the problem is that the actual school day in state is so short that there is just not enough time to deviate away from the curriculum so making it boring, and also that many children only get into grammars because of extensive coaching and are ultimately not up to it. A friend who is a head at another top grammar calls its the 33% rule. 33% are bright enough for it and would have got in without coaching, 33% are boarder line and have been coached and the other 33% are no cleverer that those who failed or didn't even attempt to get in just very well coached. The school/lessons/teachers have to cater for all.

legallyblond - the second of your two options is neither all boarding nor all boys - PM me!

I think you're right, happygardening.

I can't afford private. What can I do?

The more selective ones often don't start till 7/8 a classic example would be Colet Court maybe its easier to sort the super bright from the less able at 8 than 4.
With regard to non getting less than 65% as one head told me one schools 65% is another schools 50%. Remember the individual schools mark CE and there are different levels. Even my DS1 managed to pull in 65% for the lowest level of CE maths. Also the less selective Shiplake, Bethanys St Lawrence College I think would be good examples don't require CE they write their own easier exams which are sat earlier in the year and often only require maths english and sometimes a science paper.

Hully - is he very, very bright? It might be worth trying for a scholorship to a private school. You never know... Where are you? If its London then my gut feeling is that scholarships to the London schools are just crazy hard to get and all a bit of a minefield (i.e. you would have missed the boat - but that's not from any in depth knowledge). If you more provincial though, worth looking at a scholorship to a really good boarding school, if there is one, where he might not have to do full boarding. You could always ask - they are often quite flexible re timing of intake etc and he's not started his GCSE's yet, right?

Stealth - aha. I admit I do not have very up to date info on Abberley (my dad and all his chums boarded there, so my info is from their children who went there (my age) rather than the current crop). We are SW and not planning on boarding for prep (and then from secondary, would really only want weekly)... So not an option as such!

I have much more up to date knowledge of Sunningdale but as we have a DD and do not want boarding prep - not an option!

Can I just say, I am very glad this thread has turned out to be a proper discussion rather than the private bashing vs state arguments that can crop up...!