Is it worth paying for prep school?

[MrsJAlfredPrufrock]

I paid/pay for my teens to go to a selective boys' day Snr school. Prior to that they went to our nearest state primary school and passed their entrance exams without coaching. My younger two (6 and4) are at a state primary (a different one to their brothers as we've moved, on paper it is massively better, in reality it's not) and I'm wondering if people think it's worthwhile paying for prep school. I used to think it wasn't but I'm beginning to wonder, especially for things like music and languages.

What are other people's experiences?

I went to a selective secondary from a state junior and felt that I lacked the foundation of those coming up from the prep school. So, working on the Jesuit principle (give me a child until they are seven ...) I sent mine to prep schools. I realised, too late, that these days prep schools brilliant results are not due to the prep schools. They are due to prep schools plus additional tutoring.

If you are worried that your DC need extra oomph, save your money and go state + support from home + tutoring.

Notjoan - ah interesting, thank you.

I don't have much experience but my SIL, who does, says that all you are paying for at that stage is smaller class sizes. She has found that state pupils who have applied to her son's prestigous school have passed the entrance exam without any preparation.

She has always paid for outside additional music, dance and drama and sport classes whilst her children are at prep.

A real prep school is worth every penny,sadly many so called preps are nothing of the sort-they are just small private schools with delusions...

Pro patria - how do you distinguish between the two types?

Easy,look at the leavers destinations,real preps dont stop at 11,they dont send to just one or two schools,I would also expect boarding but thats just me,"The Oxford group" of prep schools is a good place to start,decent geographical spread and all proper preps.

I know that the ones near me that go from 3 all the way to 18 have very selective/academic preps as their children do not take the exam to go through to the senior school but are generally said to be around a level 6 by the end of Y6. The 11+ for these schools is very competitive and only the top children get in from state schools and with a lot of tutoring from Y5. This is because in most of our local state schools they do not cover L6 so there is that to catch up with, plus NVR/VR etc...

Music not too much of a problem as a lot of children take private music lessons - maybe languages a bit more of an issue.

There are a couple of prep schools that closed recently, I think due to the fact that they were not hugely successful at ganing entrance for their children to these schools - food for thought!

I am 50/50 myself whether to keep them in state primary until 11 or change them sooner - more from the point of view that I would love to save the children all the additional tutoring and extra prep but then again saving thousands of pounds also appeals. Difficult one!

What might you think on paper of Aldwickbury versus Lockers Park for example? Both go go 13, both have boarding possibilities higher up he school. Lockers transparent about their leavers' destinations, Aldwickbury vague.

Lockers happy to list leavers destinations(including other prep schools) Aldwick just waffles,not impressed by the aldwick website at all,very little concrete on it,wouldnt prob pick eitherfor any child of mine but between the two Lockers would win...

We had to choose for DS between private Prep or private for Seniors - we chose Prep and are glad we've done so, especially for the massive advantages it is giving him in languages, separate sciences, sport etc. Academically he is way above the national average in all subjects, but that may have been the case if he had stayed at a normal primary school of course.

We are lucky as at senior level all 3 upper schools in town achieve excellent results at GCSE / A Level, are very sporty and offer Duke of Edinburgh / CCF or similar, so going back into the state system at 13 is the way forward for us then.

I also like to see a couple of hundred + children in the school,not just on economic grounds but it makes sports teams,music ensembles etc a lot more viable at a decent level.

The problem with London preps and those surrounding 11+ areas around the M25 is that parents hear of one parent tutoring, panic, and then they all start tutoring even if it is not necessary. A school that tends to send all over at 13+ and has long school days including Saturdays tends not to have parents that tutor. There is no time for one thing! I'd opt for Lockers Park over Aldwickbury.

I also firmly believe that a solid foundation is best.

I disagree with size to some extent. A small school brings on every child because they have to play in a team. Yes that team may not win but the unsporty child is developing in a way they would not have as they would not have even been given the opportunity to play. Less chance of being ignored in a small school as all kids are needed in plays, performances and to muck in in general.

I send my oldest two to a 'prep' that fails on all the counts propatria describes . Stops at 11, only 120 pupils and most go on to the senior school above it.

Youngest goes to 'outstanding' village primary which falls short of the prep on almost every level and as soon as we can scrape together the fees (even though prep have offerd us 50% discount) she'll be going there! More sport, more drama, kind, pupil-centred teachers, vivid lessons, lots of music.

I know several kids who have done prep until 11 or 13 then gone to local very good comp and I think the work ethic instilled helps massively.

We don't pay for class size, as local (rural) primary classes are not that much larger.

We pay for breadth of education, freedom from the constraints of National Curriculum, subject specialist teachers from Y4 onwards, superb facilities, longer school days so lots of what would be extra-curricular is done at school.

FWIW it is a school which does 3-13 only and is not obviously a "feeder" for any specific senior school, and is not selective (apart from obvious self-selection based on ability to pay, of course)

We never really planned to pay for primary level, but having ended up doing it for DC1 we would not consider (unless we had no choice) not doing the same for DC2.

My son is at a decent prep. I'm sure that if he were at a good state primary his basic spelling and maths would be at least as good and probably better; but I think the NC excruciatingly dull. I think a prep school gives a much broader education and a prep which goes up to 13 "drags up" the aspirations of the 10 and 11 year olds.

I like the rigorous approach to languages, to history and to literature particularly and I think that the long school day enables them to fit in a lot of different things.

A bit of tutoring goes on amongst the day boys in the scholarship class; but one of the things I like about an almost all boarding school is that it minimises the opportunities for helicopter parenting. Day preps, especially those which only go to 11 tend to be awash with tutors.

The size question is an interesting one. I think that some preps (eg Dragon) are far far too big, with far too great an opportunity for middling children (ie most) to get lost. On the other hand, I think a very small school can be very vulnerable to economic vicissitude- to lose 5 boys during a recession may be a problem if there are only 100 in the school.

Ultimately, I think you need to decide on the sort of secondary school which you would like them to go to then work backwards from there

I agree with notjoan. I went to a private secondary after a state primary. i behind - not academically (but that was mainly becasue of tutoring by my mum, who is a teacher - the only things I had "missed" were French and Latin which I cought up on within a year), but in terms of sport (I had never done hockey etc), the arts (I had never sung in a proper choir etc) and most importantly, socially. My parents both boarded at good public schools so we were, I guess, pretty middle class, but at the state primary I had "dumbed down" to fit in - I had deliberately not spoken well and never put my hand up in class etc as it was cool to be a bit thick. The opposite was true of course at my secondary and it took a couple of uncomfortable terms for me to adjust to that. I am the eldest of my parents children and, as they had more money as we got older, they sent my younger siblings to private preps. they had a noticably better start at secondary as a result and needed no coaching.

vixsatis - I agree about lack of helicopter parenting (and subsequent tutoring) at predominantly boarding schools.

At senior level I would not want my DC to be day pupils in a mostly boarding school, or vice versa, but for prep (and because we live really close) it seems to work - and makes my life a lot easier - lots of contact time, no homework (they do set them some in the top years so that they get used to it before senior school, but they have time and space to complete it at school) and no tutoring except SN which is done in school as well.

Oh thank you all.

Habs boys' prep is possible but I'm not that keen on the Habs brand for various reasons.

Stealth - it sounds as though you've found the ideal school.

propatria - Yes, I feel Lockers is the better of the two. But is there something else we should/could be looking at? We live in Harpenden (AL5) and Lockers wouldn't be that easy a commute. I can't see where else might be a good possibility for us.

My four year old son is bright (significantly brighter than his two older brothers - one at med school and one in Yr 11 who is predicted all A* at GCSE and took some early and secured top grades not that that means anything but just to flesh out the my boy is bright claims a little). But he's not unbelievably bright like Colleger's son or Happygardening's son so I don't want him to go to the most academic school in the county or anything like that. I just want him to have a rounded education, get proficient on an instrument or two, study a bit of French and Latin, sing in a choir, play masses of sport, and then have a good crack at whatever senior school is deemed most suitable for him. And I would like it to be reasonably easily commutable as otherwise it will really have an adverse impact on family life. I need to also find a new school for my six year old daughter who is creative.

Colleger - that's a good point about smaller schools offering all boys a role.

Vixatis - Could you have used the state school and then paid for tutors to do the rest after the shorter state school day? French classes, Latin classes, music lessons etc?

Legallyblond - DS1 and DS2 went directly from their state school to a selective indy at 11 totally without tutoring. I remember DS2 was given copies of the preceding year's entrance exams to look over, and DS1 maintains that he didn't even get to see what sort of papers they were, that we just didn't bother.

Ds has been in a mixture of state and prep and (I'm very sorry if I offend anyone, I'm sure not all schools are like this) I noticed a huge difference between the behaviour of the children. The children in the state schools lacked discipline and were left to run riot at play time and lunch time. Ds was not use to the 'roughness' (sorry ) and quickly became a target for the bullies. He was told to sort it out himself. He was bullied in the prep (by a child who'd recently moved from a state school) and the staff were swift to sort it out. The classes in the prep were smaller and the standards of behaviour were a lot higher. The prep spent a lot of time helping children with the common entrance exam and the work was tailored to their needs. If I had to repeat the whole experience I wouldn't place him into another state school. I'm sure that there are good ones out there and this is my opinion based on my experiences.

peacofcake - thanks. Sorry about the bullying. :(

I have to say, my children are really enjoying their state primary. And the behaviour of the other children is good and there have been no signs of any bullying at all. I just get the impression the day is spent sitting on the mat. When I went in to see DD's work (after she's been there a year) I wanted to ask if that was ALL? A whole year and you get me in to look at a bit of sticking and colouring?

Ds1 & 2 went to a village primary (1 form entry) and then selective independent secondary. Ds3 is still at the primary, but because of a house move we will probably put him into the linked prep school.

Although we are very happy with the state school the prep has noticeable advantages - proper music rooms and facilities, great art & DT classrooms, better sports facilities, science labs etc. You might get some of these things in a larger state school, although not all I expect.

I think that for ds the main advantage will be that the pace of work will be faster. It is a selective school - in his current class there is a definate top third, middle third and bottom third. The bottom third just wouldn't pass the test. They also make certain assumptions about parental willingness to make sure homework is done - I know in the current school some families are not supportive and this can have a knock on effect to the child's performance in school.

It happens everywhere, it's how the schools deal with it which makes the difference. The state schools of differenciating the work was to tell the brighter children to do the harder side of the sheet though. He was very bored. They spent the last term rehearsing for a play so he actually did very little in the two terms that he was there.

MrsAlf I could have paid for tutors after school etc; but it isn't just the extra subjects, it's the way all subjects are taught- history, for instance is chronological rather than project based. I also think DS would(quite fairly) have hated being the only one made to do a couple of hours' tuition every night on top of the state school homework. He has much more fun doing his additional lessons and prep with his friends. I could live with state primary- the one on the corner of our street looks really lovely; but I really would not be happy with him at any of the local state secondaries, either from an academic or a social point of view. He is where he is in part to give us options for the next stage. He's not bright enough for any of the state to independent options really to be viable.

Before I get flamed, by "social point of view" I do not mean that I do not think it a good idea to mix with a broad range of people or that I couldn't live with the odd glottal stop. I mean that I think there would be a good chance that in our local state secondaries he would stick out as different and would
be bullied. I don't want him to go through that.