Is it worth paying for prep school?

[MrsJAlfredPrufrock]

I paid/pay for my teens to go to a selective boys' day Snr school. Prior to that they went to our nearest state primary school and passed their entrance exams without coaching. My younger two (6 and4) are at a state primary (a different one to their brothers as we've moved, on paper it is massively better, in reality it's not) and I'm wondering if people think it's worthwhile paying for prep school. I used to think it wasn't but I'm beginning to wonder, especially for things like music and languages.

What are other people's experiences?

I'd probably just save the fees to be honest if you are happy with state and comfortable that they'll get in to senior schools of your choice. I wish I was happy with state schools, it would have saved me a fortune as well as other hassles, mainly driving and lack of friends close by.

Colleger - I'm not that happy with it but they are happy there.

Trouble is, not every school is worth paying for. I just don't know how to work it all out.

I think it's an important measure of a school whether they understand the concept of "added value" - a friend who is an independent school head talks in terms of needing to be able to justify to his parents (customers) that he is providing £x worth of "value" to their DC over and above what they would get in the state sector.

DC's headmaster doesn't talk in these terms, and doesn't really live in the real world as far as value-for-money is concerned, but lots of other factors outweigh that, for us, right now.

Finding this thread of great interest. DD1 in small village primary and happy but I think unispired. Can't be sure that if we managed to pay for prep, we would be able to follow on with secondary, but my gut tells me that the foundations are laid at 7+ not 11+......
By the way Mrs J - I don't know Alwickbury but have a friend with a son there and whilst happy overall I have heard some criticism re son's current teacher's rather rigid approach. I am looking at Kingshott - prob not in the same prep 'league' though as I want a mixed prep.

Ds is at a prep with 240 on the roll. They have a real ethos that every boy gets to play in a school team no matter how rubbish they are at sport. Compare that to another school I know where only the best get chosen for teams and the others don't even get to play matches between themselves, such is the focus on the elite.

Ds's school is one of those connected to a senior school so lots of pressure to continue on to the senior school at 11 rather than move. Not keen on that but they are working a couple of years ahead of our local very good primary and they've also identified a talent ds has that I doubt would have been recognised at our local state school. Because of that talent he may well move to a proper (ie up to 13) prep this year.

MollieO is it in fencing?

jasperc163 - Ah interesting about Aldwickbury. I have heard very conflicting reports. It is so difficult to get to the truth about these places, without paying the fees and sending a child there.

Well OP, looking back at the end of prep school now, I can hand on heart say it was worth it. Most definitely.

At the start I chose our prep because I fell in love with it both materially and its ethos and because it was my nearest school.

I advise others to be more cautious than I!!!!!

However, with the benefit of hindsight, it could not have been better. And I say that now having extensive experience of my local state primary school and having some knowledge of other private schools in the area.

I'm not saying though that I could not have prepped them myself for secondary...I'm sure I could with help (though CE and scholahsip would have been tricky). But the education they received was far more than I could ever have hoped for.

Oh and of the preps in that area - Lockers, Alswickbury, Heathmount, Edge Grove, Habs, Beechwood...I can definitively tell you that Edge Grove does the best cricket tea

No, not fencing although he's pretty handy with a tool kit he finds it hard to manage the 6 ft panels by himself .

He's apparently an exceptionally talented singer. He is keen to audition for our local choir school and would start there in the next academic year if he's successful. I'm keen because it is a good school and goes on to 13 so saves all the angst about secondary schools, at least for a couple of more years.

wordfactory - ah that's interesting. Thank you, and LOL at cricket tea.

MollieO - ah that's a lovely talent to discover.

I am in the interesting position of being able to view both ends. My eldest son has just gone to uni and my youngest has just started in reception. Looking at my state to private teenagers, I don't think there's an academic difference between them and their prep to private educated peers but there is a difference. I think their prep-educated peers are more comfortable with being competitively musical for example.

Ds also does rugby and cricket at school which he wouldn't do at our local state school.

Prep schools are meant to prepare children for their entrance exam into their senior school. If you want your child prepared for CE then they are very good place to send your child. Assuming your using one outlined by propatria of which there proably aren't that many relatively speaking. But I'm surprised that at my DS selective boarding school that a number of children come from comps and are being let off the Latin and maybe not expected to get such high marks in French so maybe things are changing it will be interesting to see what will be happening in 10 years. I think alot of this down to money my DS's prep was £7000 a term bursaries are less available at prep and as some of the big names are becoming increasingly generous with their bursaries and wanting to attract the bright from less wealthy backgrounds so they will have to make allowances in their entrance exam requirment.
My children full boarded at a prep from 8 leaving at 13. The school was as propatria outlined feeding into all the "big" names the leavers in 2011 went to about 17 well known schools but as they got older it was a stifling small minds environment Frankly if I had my time over again I wouldn't eat chocolate all the time I'm not sure I would do it the same way.

Happygardening - Thanks that's interesting. When you say if you had your time over again you wouldn't do it the same way, do you mind sharing what you might do.

We've just had a couple of DS1's old school friends for supper and talked about prep schools. One went to St Albans via Edge Grove and one to SA via Lochinver House. One went at pre-prep and one at prep after a couple of years at his local state school. Interestingly, they would both send their children to private school from age 7, definitely. And they felt both (prep and snr) schools were of equal value and would most definitely pay for their own children to go to school. DS2 says he did absolutely nothing except play Pokemon and discuss Arsenal at his state primary from age 8 onwards and I seem to remember that is about right and that is was absolutely ace.

Just to clarify, DS2 thought it was absolutely ace. Not me.

I would also be interested to know what you would do differently HG if you were to do it again

I have 2 of my children in a lovely state primary and if one were to talk only about DS then I would say that no I don't think that prep is necessary at all. He is incredibly happy extremely bright, he has lovely friends and is academically challenged. The school has excellent levels of discipline, the children have excellent manners, there are specialist teachers for several subjects including sport and children regularly move onto many of the top London day schools. Yes, there are aspects which may be better served in a prep school but the advantages of being in a lovely local community school far outweigh what I believe he would gain from being in a prep school.

On the other hand, it doesn't suit DD, she is not happy, there is not enough creativity for her, she is lost in a class of 30, she is middle of the class and is not challenged as she meets the expected level so there is no motivation to push her. We are currently looking at prep schools for her, not because they are prep schools and therefore automatically better but because her current school is not right and therefore I am looking further afield.

So, I would say that it is very individual. I certainly wouldn't choose prep as a first option, I am far happier having my children in a local state school and topping up with tutoring if required but where the school is failing my child I will then look at prep.

I should also add that I have no interest in either boarding schools or schools which go to 13. We are planning on keeping her in a day school so I am interested in where the schools feed into and it is key to me that they also have children moving into maintained at 11 as we have fantastic state secondaries in the area which I intend to consider alongside the private secondaries.

I can't think of anything more tedious than feeling I have to top up a school day with tutoring. Gah.

I often think the best course of action might be to rent out our house (we would get an enormous rent for it) and take the children on a round the world trip with a newly qualified but very well educated teacher in tow. It would be a brilliant start in life.

How much do you think we would have to pay such a teacher? To come with us for a year of looking at stuff here and there? Imagine your school day consisting of walking through the Uffizi, or learning about limestone outcrops at Malham Tarn? would it cost less than two sets of prep school fees for the year?

I wouldn't bother. Put them in school in France for a year and live out there or just take maths and English work with you and do it yourself. I'm assuming you could pay a teacher £25k plus all food and expenses but I'm not sure you'd get a good teacher and the children would form an attachment that could be painful when the year comes to an end and teacher moves on.

Oh just send them to a good prep!! The chances of having a teacher so great you could stand to live with her for a year are slim to none. And French schools are slightly bizarre by English standards - no or almost no sport, naps in the middle of the day (we sent our dd to one for 6 months when in France a few years ago).

You are not thinking big enough, MrsJAP.
There aren't enough jobs out there for all the NQT and they need something extra on their CV to make them shine. I suggest that, instead of paying your tutor, you sell it to them as a glorified Gap Year cum work experience and charge them for the privilege.

We are using a pre-prep, then to a prep. Look at leavers' destinations and scholarships won. And reputation, parents love to talk about the schools ime.

No tutoring here. I want to completely avoid using a tutor. Too tiring to be on it so much. They just have to do their homework.

Yes tutors make me shudder, would do anything to avoid them including slaving my guts out at work to help pay the fees.

Me too.

MrsJ Happy New Year and to all the other regulars Colleger et al.
I'm afraid even those stumping up £7000 a term are tutoring their DC's. high termly fees, large reputations and awards from various organisations like The Good School Guide don't stop this extra tutoring from happening.
If what you want is not a variation on the long standing approach, if you don't require either a very high mark at CE e.g. 70% + or a scholarship into a top school e.g. Eton Win Coll then probably a prep school is fine. Let me give you a completely made up example; Tim nice a little dim, sportyish but no clear talent, no dyslexia etc. want to go to a big name that wants 50%-55% at CE apparently thats grammar school level (I'm happy to be corrected on this). He's fairly hard working but most importantly compliant then your good prep will get him in. In a state school he would probably been over looked and in those feeding into grammar schools not considered suitable. Thats what people pay for. There is an argument that the £21000 PA could buy a lot of tutoring but the small classes rigid structure found in full prep boarding schools better sporting opportunities (he's crap at cricket but quite good at sailing for example) probably a good thing for Tim. Remember those who can effortlessly afford these kind of fees have probably got at least one other child already in boarding ed. are often high achieving professional who may not have the time or the motivation to organise tutors, are abroad a lot etc.
Theres others who in my experience it doesn't suit. At the risk of bringing the wrath of every prep school teacher down on my head I have found prep school teachers to be generally not much better than average of course there are exceptions to the rule but that is my experience. I think many prep schools are struggling to make ends meet even the big names and thus cut corners when it comes to teaching staff. Mr Biggins who teaches French ends up teaching Latin when the classics teacher leaves; he did Latin A level thirty years ago he's a linguist so whats the problem? Many senior schools are happy to let a child not sit Latin CE so the numbers requiring Latin is falling. Level 1 Latin (often all that is required by many for CE) in very basic and certainly all that is required by the likes of Tim.
The problem arises when your child needs a high level in say Latin/maths/French because they've either got to get a very high mark at CE 70%+ across the board at level three or they're sitting an entrance exam of the level set by win Coll or you want to try for a scholarship into the likes of Eton/Harrow/Win Coll etc. Many prep schools are IME just not geared for this level for two reasons; they don't have enough staff with this level of experience and knowledge to teach to this level; your talking somewhere between GCSE and A level and they are unable to break the classes down enough to teach a small group (maybe only 3-4 in a non selective prep who require this level) due to lack of staff because insufficient fees to fund more teachers. This I accept doesn't happen in big highly selective pushy London preps.
Finally again IME experience many preps (applies particularly those few remaining with a high % of full/weekly boarders) are very stuffy and small minded. Those who have boarded since an early age are mature in a way that there contemporaries in the state sector aren't. They are unlikely to be street wise my DS's had never got on bus in their lives but they are used to thinking for themselves and not relying on their parents, from a very early age they have had to organise their washing change their beds organise their prep etc . they will have had more informal contact with adults than an a child in a state primary and perhaps most importantly are very good at reading body language of a wide variety of other adults and children this skill is essential if your going to survive boarding. But as they develop their own personality and mature I've found that they grow out of their schools around about year 6 the time most state ed. children move on and those who are unable to conform to the ethos of often what is a very small environment struggle because they just don't fit the box.
So what would I have done differently? Just let me put down the bar of chocolate! We do live in an unbelievably middle class area no crime (well 1 four months ago), an excellent comp on our doorstep with places, tutors easily found. I would not choose a small prep school again I'm talking 100 -150 children. I would probably have sent DS1 who is now at the comp to one of our excellent state primaries and provided a tutor for the subjects he's weak in maths and perhaps for those he's strong and very intersted in e.g. science and channelled my money into more visits to historical centres etc. He's dyslexic so never going to be good at French but might if given a long enough run at it done well in Spanish so I would probably found a tutor/club for that well.
DS2 would have in the ideal world gone to a large prep and probably not boarding maybe flexi boarding (still 13 feeding into all the big name etc.) but at yr 6 having been offered a place at his current school I would have reviewed the situation. If I felt the school was not going to teach to the high level required for his entrance exam and thus I was going to have to find a tutor or found that he was in anyway unhappy I would probably moved him to the comp for the next two years and provided tutors for Latin and French because the French exam is notoriously difficult and probably in the last year

maths and I would even considered home schooling him for yr 8 to get him through the exams. We are not wealthy (its all relative of course) and I feel like my prep school mugged me my DS1 did not do well and I paid for tutors either through the school (yes I know thats sound ridiculous) or privately for DS2. This is not because he's not clever enough; when you discover 6 months before the exam that they haven't covered 3/4 of the curriculum for his entrance exams in at least 4 subjects due to lack of staff you have no choice. His French was independently assessed he didn't even know what quelle heure est il? (after 5 years of french 4-5 lessons a week) even I know that and I failed French dismally over thirty years ago and had only covered the present tense when he needed to know the perfect/imperfect/future/past etc. The "text book" the teacher was using was three levels lower than that required for the exam. In fact he never completed the maths curriculum and two weeks before the exam he still had not covered the topics for two of the questions by then I'd given up and just had my fingers crossed that all would be OK.
My advise if you decide to go down the prep school route find one that primarily moves on at the year your DC's will move on, have they got a history of sending quite a few children to your senior school of choice; not just 2 children last year and then none for twenty years prior to that, if your looking for a scholarship have they got a strong history of getting them into your chosen school again not just one 9 years ago/ and also for scholarships/schools requiring very high marks at CE or entrance exams of the level of Win Coll separate classes from the other children in all subjects not just a few extra lessons? I also suspect for a scholarship at yr 9 you need to be streamed separately from the others at yr 7. Ideally you want at least a couple of other children in your DC's year group going for the same school. Don't be naive like I was, don't assume its being done wherever you send your DC's you need to know exactly what the requirements are for their entrance exams and keep a very firm eye on whats going on. Its much easier if your not boarding, you really want to avoid discovering 6 months before the exam that the school haven't prepared your DC. It is very stressful for all and also very time consuming and expensive to resolve in a short time. I felt and most teachers I spoke to agreed that in my case the curriculum should have been fully covered by the end of year 7 and that the last year should have been spent going over it and sorting out any problem areas and practising exam questions.
Years ago I owned horses and kept them at many different livery yards in my experience if it was not there or being done before you arrived it wont be there or being done when you leave! Also everything is fine until you wanted variation on a theme different feed from the other horses etc. Sadly when it comes to schools and livery yards flash facilities and paying large amounts of money does not always mean that things will be better and like many horse owners I ended up doing it myself there is a lesson to be learnt there.Good luck.

That is the longest post I've ever read on mn! I award you a medal happygardening