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What are my rights to withold school fees?...

262 replies

mummytippy · 27/12/2011 15:25

Hi everyone,

I'll try and keep to the point with this very stressful and upsetting matter.

My son started at an independent school just after Easter. At this point he was 4. He turned 5 at the end of June.
We were due to move house (a move of just over 20 miles) so I decided on a school close to where we were going to and have now moved to. This was to try and ease any upheaval... as at least I hoped he'd remain at the same school despite moving house.

Upon enrollment the Headmistress advised that as the Easter term was short, and my son was a summer born boy, his progress would be monitored. She said that should he need a little more time to settle in he would continue after the summer hols in Reception and join year one after the October half term.

He settled in well. On the whole he's a very well behaved child and if anything he adapted well with the transition from nursery (free-play environment) to the more structured classroom environment.

At first things seemed fine, I found there to be small problems... little things... for example, letters home about uniform and important dates would name my son incorrectly... and I too would be addressed in-correctly (wrong surname and title). I dismissed these as felt they were minor.

As the summer hols approached I wasn't contacted as discussed by the head or my son's class teacher regarding his progress.
The head does have a reputation as quite formidable. Most parents find her very intimidating.
Instead of being contacted personally as I'd believed I would, I received a sheet of paper on the last day of term with a tick in the box telling me my son's progress was 'satisfactory'. This was not expanded upon.
I asked another parent with children in the same class... and apparently if you 'hadn't heard' it meant your child was going to start in year 1 after the holidays. I was pleased, as I felt my son must have met the required standard... in such a short term... and importantly it meant he could remain with his class mates.

After the (8 week) Summer holiday my son returned to school. After 3 days in, I found a compliment slip in his bag asking me to go into school as 'his behavior was causing reason for concern'. I was very shocked and worried... and wondered what on earth could he have done?

I arranged to see the headmistress the next morning. At the meeting (which the headmistress kept me waiting 20 minutes for) I was told my son had been sat 'twitching' at his table and 'fidgeting' with the contents of his pencil case.
I explained that this was very out of character... (usually if asked to stop, would) and perhaps as the holidays had been very long (as long as the Spring term) to maybe give him a few more days to settle in.
I was then completely shocked when the headmistress turned to me and said... 'Surely you know you have a naughty boy?' to which I replied dumbstruck ... 'Well, actually, he's relatively good at home... and has his moments... like most children' to which I got 'Oh, so he's an Angel at home and a terror here'... well his attitude has to change or you're wasting your money'!!! I did my best to remain composed and then re-iterated we were also moving house (upheaval, leaving his friends made since birth etc) and to bare this in mind and offer him additional support.

I am a lone parent and cannot say how much this shocked and hurt me to hear. Once I'd left the meeting, I went out to my car and sat and cried. Despite this, I felt I had to give the teacher and headmistress the benefit of the doubt, present a united front and had a chat with my son after school... explaining the importance of listening and learning at school.

From here, things went from bad to worse...
My son had started school being able to hold a pencil correctly but somehow now could barely do this? He was struggling to keep up too. As a result he was kept in a break times and part of the lunch hour and set extra work to do at home which I gladly did with him.

I received another note: Saying Griff's homework hadn't been done... but it had as I'd done it with him. I explained I knew it had definitely been completed as we'd had to use a blue pencil crayon (not ideal) and then the teacher sent a note saying 'It's turned up, 'my son' had hidden it at the bottom of the marking pile'. This is not something he would do... I seriously mean that... if anything he'd have to be told where to put the homework.

Then, about a week later, one morning whilst he was getting himself dressed for school he burst into tears... saying ' Please tell Mrs * (the head) I can dress myself Mummy!'. I couldn't believe how upset he was... and asked whatever had happened. He said he'd been dressing after P.E. the day before and the head had asked him if he dressed himself at home... on saying yes, she had replied with 'I don't believe you'. I can imagine he was probably dressing a little slowly... but he is only 5! I was not happy about him being demeaned.

By now I felt extremely unhappy and guilty in sending my son to school as he was clearly very unhappy... especially as the school seemed in no way to take any of the facts about our house move into consideration.

The final straw was my son being refused to go to the toilet after raising his hand and asking. As a result he wet himself in class and had to change into his P.E. shorts. I was humiliated and embarrassed and I out raged.

By this point we had reached October half term and I had to come to a decision... the last thing I wanted to do was create more upheaval. We had only been in our new home just over a week.
I felt I had no choice but to withdraw him from the school with immediate effect on the grounds that I felt he wasn't being treated or cared for properly.

I wrote to the headmistress explaining my reasons... to which she didn't acknowledge my letter but left a very rude answerphone message. I again wrote to her (going into more detail) to which again she replied very rudely, insulting me, saying I was rude and that I was being unfair to my son in removing him from the school and that he should have completed the term. She also said she felt I had written my letter of complaint to simply 'get out of paying the fees' and that she believes I cannot afford the fees'.
With regard to my son staying on, I was afraid of how he would be treated if he stayed, as they didn't seem to care about him before I'd raised my concerns.
With regard to affording the fees, the headmistress is not aware my son is now blissfully happy at another Independent fee paying school.

So, going back to my point about payment... I had been paying the school fees by direct debit each month... until September, where because I wasn't happy I put a stop on the DD. I withdrew my son at Oct half term... and was prepared to pay for Sept and Oct.

I am trying to look at this matter in a 'matter of fact' way which is:
'If you are unhappy with a service, do you pay for it?'
As I am extremely upset at the way my child has been treated and am unhappy with the standard of the education too, I am close to complaining to the ISC and Ofsted.

As a result of withholding payment, the headmistress has already
consulted a debt collection agency who are not only asking for the fees up to the end of term for which my son was withdrawn half-way (winter term) but she has also invoiced me for the Spring term of next year too.

I feel the school has failed my son and we have both been treated in a despicable manner. I would be very grateful for any advice and support.

Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
mummytippy · 13/02/2012 19:48

@MollieO, Thanks for your message. I should be speaking to my solicitor tomorrow.
As far as places go at the school I'm not sure of the total number of children allowed on the roll in total. All I know is there's a waiting list.
My son was allowed to enrol as a child which was in his class had had a serious accident and couldn't return to school as a result.
I have a voice message from the head telling me that ''she has a child to fill my ds's place...'' which I've given to my solicitor. I've also learned the class size is now 25, which some of the parents are unhappy about. Seems large for an independant school... and in contrast the class size where my ds is now is 12 including him.

OP posts:
MollieO · 13/02/2012 20:01

They should have a maximum number in the class they are happy with. 25 seems high for pre-prep. In pre-prep ds's class varied between 13 and 16. There is a stipulated maximum of 20 but the school was under-subscribed in his year. A school I visited last week had 20 in a class and that was the maximum they take.

LaughingGas · 13/02/2012 20:27

25 in a`pre prep!

wow.

in the indie schools my dc have attended class sizes have never exceeded 16 right through the years

mummytippy · 13/02/2012 21:01

My son is still in contact with some friends he made at the school... and myself their mums, and they're very annoyed with this. The fact the classes are large is another indicator that I feel the head is ''in it'' more for the money more than anything else.
Incidentally, since my son started at his new school he's been taking occasional extra lessons (instead of assembly) with the school's Senco. This has made me so cross in that my son's needs were definitely not meet at the other school. Makes me think ''quantity not quality'' from an enrolement point of view.

OP posts:
LaughingGas · 13/02/2012 21:13

you deffo did the right thing in moving your son.

Fingers crossed for the solicitor stuff too

mummytippy · 13/02/2012 21:42

Thanks LaughingGas, I'll keep you posted x.

OP posts:
mumat39 · 14/02/2012 22:47

Hello Mummytippy

I read through the whole of this thread over the last couple of days and just wanted to wish you lots of luck and I really hope the outcome goes your way.

I am so so horrified at the treatment that your little boy received whilst at that school. I'm still in shock that a 5 year old would have been penalised for fidgeting. Surely there is a kinder way to encourage children to do what they're told. If that school thinks that the best way to teach children is to bully them into submission, then you really are well out of it.

Also, the way that the dragon treated you!!! The class teacher doesn't sound any better. I'm all for discipline and believe that kids need rules and actually benefit from structure. But to deny a young child the opportunity to go to the toilet is just out of order. I was so angry at the way he was treated.

Surely if a child needs some extra help, bullying them and making them feel small isn't going to help them.

Just out of interest, I'm really really surprised that as the contract goes both ways, i.e. between you and the school, that the fact that the school did not properly care for your ds surely means that they somehow defaulted on their side of the agreement. Maybe you shouldn't have withheld the payment, but I am surprised that private schools are well within their rights to expect payment even if they haven't provided the level of care that you'd expect from a private school. We're considering an independent school for our DD and I haven't even considered that they might not look after her in a caring and kind way. I really hope that the school that you were unfortunate to experience is not the norm when it comes to independent schools.

I really do wish you well and am so so happy to hear that your DS is doing well and being given the right level of support and care that he needs and deserves. I also really hope that you do manage to report the monster of a head and the school to the relevant authorities. I'd hate to think that she is getting away with this kind of mental abuse of other children. People like her shouldn't be allowed to work with children!

Good Luck and apologies for my rant and any typos or silly errors.

dramafluff · 15/02/2012 11:37

How did your meeting go yesterday mummy?

dramafluff · 27/02/2012 10:29

Just wondered whether you have had any progress yet or responses to your solicitor?

mummytippy · 28/02/2012 21:22

Hello... Just a quick update and thank you mumat39 for your patience in reading the entire thread! I've not had anything ''concrete'' back from my solicitor as yet... hoping to in the next few days as I e-mailed him again today.

Thank you for your support... as soon as I have any news I shall let you know. Thank you x

OP posts:
mummytippy · 09/03/2012 12:36

Hi there,

Sorry... I've had so much on I feel I've neglected the post.

My solicitor initially asked the school's solicitor to forward a copy of the contract which the school haven't yet done (It would seem the two lines quoted on the invoice stand for a contract).

He also asked them to bank my cheque... which they confirmed they wouldn't do as they were not accepting this amount was all that's due from me. Further to this, my solicitor advised me to ask them to again bank the cheque on the grounds that I was in agreement that I owed at least that part... (cheque covered the time my ds attended the school which would 'remove' the full and final settlement clause.

I've spoken to my solicitor again today and 'reading between the lines' he says the school's solicitor is in agreement with him and feels exasperated that they have not negotiated and accepted my cheque as full and final settlement.
The school has now in fact ignored his advice.
His update from the school was that they are happy to bank the cheque and accept £100 per month installments to clear the balance!!!

He feels they are simply not listening to him, despite him emphasising there's nothing to gain... by the time the school's incurred the court costs (if it goes to trial) which will be around £1500.00 to 2000.00 it's getting close to what they're demanding from me (£2600.00).

My solicitor (without needing to) has asked the school's solicitor to go back to them and again tell them to bank the cheque. I've asked him to stress the importance that I am strongly contesting the notice period and believe therefore there is not a 'balance'
(in view of the circumstances, treatment of ds).

My solicitor feels that the head is still trying to bully me into submission and he is therefore advising me to continue as I have nothing to lose.
The facts of the matter on the head/school's side is they have taken three more children into my ds old class... so she has more than mitigated her loss.

My solicitor has an acquisition questionnaire which he'll be completing next week and he's going to push for mediation to see if we can come to an agreement.

After that... depending on the outcome... I may well have to represent myself in court.

I think it's maybe time (and my solicitor said I'm okay) to write to Ofsted, and the Independent schools council.

I feel sick to the pit of my stomach and can't say how much I want this sorry chapter behind me. I simply cannot believe that anyone can deny their appalling treatment of a child to the point where they even continue to threaten legal action.

Any further advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
dramafluff · 09/03/2012 15:35

I don't think there is anything else you can do at this stage until you have a categoric rejection of your terms. Bear in mind if it goes to court and you lose, the school will not necessarily have incurred any legal costs - they will be passed on to you plus statutory interest to judgement date.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/03/2012 18:01

dramafluff - I didn't think that that the school could pass on their costs if they one because this case will be on the small claims track (under £5000) and you are only allowed to claim very limted costs.

mummytippy · 09/03/2012 21:33

Thanks for your massages.
My solicitor said that as it's a case which would be dealt with by the
small claims court I won't incur any more costs.
As it is, my solicitor very kindly offered me a 'capped fee' up to a certain point and in view of this has advised me that if it should come to it, I'm capable of representing myself in court.

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/03/2012 22:15

arggh won not one

messalina · 09/03/2012 22:55

You could report the school to ISI or as it's about the EYFS years to Ofsted too. Utterly unacceptable.

mummytippy · 10/03/2012 11:34

@ Chaz... Do you mean I've a slim chance?
@Messalina... I think I've waited long enough without contacting any of the educational bodies... thanks for pointing out it's the Early Years Foundation Stage which is relevant.
Thank you

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/03/2012 13:34

Mummytippy no I was just addressing the costs issue as I didn't think costs were something you had to worry about if you were on the small claims track.

mummytippy · 12/03/2012 11:53

@Chaz... I see, thank you.
Just replying to my solicitor (spoke to him on the phone too this morn) and am going to ask him to reply to the schools solicitor asking the school to respond properly to my grievances instead of simply pursuing me for money!

Incidently, I saw a parent of a child yesterday (play date for her son and mine) who's child is in my ds's old class and she that her son has been having a problem with another child bullying him. It's been going on for about 2 months. She had been in for a meeting with the head and as a result the bully had merit points deducted from him and was told to stay away from her son.
The bullying has continued, and whilst she was in school the other day she asked to speak to the head again about the matter as little had improved.
After a few moments of talking with my friend, the head, called for the child in question (the bully) and asked my friend to talk to him and express her feelings. My friend said she felt very awkward and was given little choice. The boy got upset and and cried and she ended up feeling bad. Her words to me were that had it been the other way around, and had the boys (bullys) mother been asked to speak to her son, she would have been angry. She feels it was not her place to 'speak' to the boy but didn't say how she felt to the head. The head simply said afterwards that she will now be inviting the boy's (bully) parents in to talk about things... Any views on this?

OP posts:
dramafluff · 13/03/2012 15:21

Not really - completely separate issue - except to say I would have expected them to contact the other child's parents first to agree it. Might be worth starting a new thread under bullying on that one.

On the costs front - yes, up to judgement it is indeed a fixed fee which will get added and statutory interest. If things go on from there (but that would be after they managed - if they managed - to get judgement and were planning to enforce) then there would be possible on costs. (Thinking stat. costs, not solicitors' costs).

From the school's point of view, even if they are in a scheme for fee recovery once it gets to the stage of a defended action this may well be considered off scheme and so will indeed be costing them money. They may be willing to spend up to what you owe then in order to 'make a point' (I am not saying that is right, just that this happens).

You may find that this will get to court (they do not sound like the sort to back down) and that a settlement will be attempted between you just before the actual hearing. What you choose to do there you would do well to take advice from your solicitor before the agreed fee is used up. Who knows what might happen if you and they end up in front of the judge who will look dispassionately at the legal aspects only.

Keep us posted!

mumat39 · 19/03/2012 00:12

Hello Mummytippy

I'm really surprised that the school asked the parents of the bullied child to speak to the bully. I would have thought schools would deal with both sets of parents separately as it's their job to manage this situation and to reassure the parents of the bullied child and to work with the parents of the bully to try and resolve why their child is like this.

Seems most odd and I'm pleased for you and your DS that he is no longer under the care of the dragon lady. Good Luck (again) I'm still keeping everything crossed that you win this case. I also hope that your DS is continuing to enjoy life at his new school.

Take care

marcopront · 19/03/2012 16:11

When did you send the cheque?

You started this thread on the 28th December and posted until the 29th December. On the 16th January you "stated since I last posted, I have sent a cheque" but on the 20th January you refer to sending the cheque on the 19th December.

Also if they had a waiting list, why did three children start after your one son left? If they increased the class size to 25, unless it was from 23 with your son, then they still have lost out.

EdithWeston · 17/04/2012 17:10

I was wondering if there was an update?

mumat39 · 17/04/2012 22:10

So was I.

Mummytippy, hope all's ok with you.

EdithWeston · 05/05/2012 19:53

OP: how is it going?

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