The Good Schools Guide - how is it decided what goes in and what stays out?

[Auroborea]

Theoretically, it should be simple - good schools are included and reviewed and less good schools stay out. But obviously it's a complex judgement which schools count as 'good' and which don't. I was wondering whether there is anybody on MN who has some knowledge about how the Good Schools Guide makes it inclusion/exclusion decisions? I am wondering about this in regards to the junior (primary/prep) stage in particular, as that's where my kids are getting to at the moment. In our area, it seems, there are lots of great schools, both state and private, but only some of them are reviewed in the Guide. There isn't always the obvious difference between those that are and those that aren't in terms of results and reputation. Is there something we are missing about the schools that aren't, or is this more about the politics of inclusion/exclusion?

All I know is: some schools don't want to be included (especially true of the SEN bit). They used to only do private, but are now expanding into State. I also think it depends on how often a school is recommended to them.

I suspect a lot of lobbying goes on. It has absolutely no bearing on a school if it isn't included, loads of good ones aren't.

Thank you, both, that's helpful.

"loads of good ones arent",could uou name some(any) ?

Propatria It depends if you mean listed or reviewed. My son's prep is listed in the online version but hasn't been reviewed. Over the last three years the school has got 14 scholarships to St Pauls, 4 to Harrow and a couple of others so it is a good school but it hasn't been reviewed.

I thought all schools, both private and state, were listed in the online version, CBA? (At least I've tried all of our local ones that I could think of and they were all there.) The example of your son's prep constitutes fairy convincing evidence that the exclusion from the guide doesn't mean a school is not 'good'!

Parents at my youngest son's school were recently encouraged to lobby for inclusion in the guide. I'd take the list with a massive grain of salt. Go with your gut instincts and try to talk to parents, not just in the nursery but find some that have gone all the way up the school.

Auroborea the school name and address appears on the online version but no review or other details, it may well be that they list those details for all schools.

The online guide does give some useful statistics for all schools (at least secondary) giving an idea if girls do a lot better than boys etc.

God knows how you get into it but my DC's prep school bore no resemblance to their extensive description! Others have said the same thing. I think you should take everything they write with a generous pinch of salt.

We found the GSG a good and useful way of quickly researching schools online in a given geographic area that met our criteria. The comments we didnt pay much attention to. We downloaded Ofsted reports instead for that, we also used league tables judiciously and personal recommendations from other parents.

GSG is the equivalent of sitting in a coffee shop mid morning and hearing twittering about schools. If I remember correctly (and don't shoot me if I don't), it actually came about as an extension of the schools section of the Sloane Ranger handbook (remember that?)

If you really want information about schools:

Read the OFSTED reports.
Read the Independent Schools' Inspectorate reports.
Check out the exam/SATS results over a five year period.
Visit them!

Everything else is just gossip and hearsay.

FWIW there are some schools in this guide I would not recommend to parents, with my professional hat on.

The Independent Schools' Inspectorate are also worryingly fictitious a group of us raised serious concerns about my DC's old prep on the parents questionnaire. Not only were our concerns not mentioned the report actually said that all parents who had completed the questionnaire were very happy!!! I've since heard other parents say the same thing. The word Independent applies to what they inspect not their actual indepenence.

I would also suggest taking a look at their accounts filed with the Charities Commission if the the school is established as a charity. If they are running out of money or running at a deficit beware!

These guides only exist because most parents are unable to see beyond the clever marketing used by most independent schools. Nearly all have identical websites/prospectuses (is this the plural for prospectus?) and most claim to be academic and that your child will achieve fantastic results without pushy them and get into a top uni. All combined with fantastic pastoral care, guaranteeing to treat your child as an individual, wonderful sporting results and 100's of extra curricular clubs!
Many parents sadly find out for themselves or hear from other parents that the reality is far removed from these grandiose claims.
After ten years of looking at a wide variety of schools I still have no idea how you see through this hype to the reality but I do know that the GSG and ISI reports are not the solution.

Ok, so to sum up:
GSG - political, not necessarily representative or even accurate, does not include all good schools and schools reviewed may not be good;
ISI - political, not necessarily representative or accurate, may be biased;
Ofstead - as above;
Exam results - difficult to compare as different schools do different ones, plus have difficult intakes, etc;
League tables - highly problematic because of the measures they use and the very idea that schools can be placed on a unitary scale;
MN (according to several school HMs we spoke too) - gossip and sour grapes;
Current parents' opinions - either partisan or sour grapes; inevitably subjective and clouded in some way;
Your own opinion - ditto;
None of this is really surprising, but what to do if you don't get into a school that your gut instinct tells you is right and proceeds to point out various problems with the alternative options?

Sorry, that post comes across a bit offensive - wasn't meant that way!

You forgot "past performance is not indicative of future results".
You might get into the, currently, best school to find that it slides downwards in the seven years that your DC is there!

HTH

Auroborea I dont know the answer to this. Fortunately I have not been in this position. MN is of course gossip and sour grapes as are other parents but there are also parents who are enthusiastic and most importantly able to give an unbiased honest view about their schools. I was recently PM'd by a mum about my DS school I believe I gave an honest appraisal of it; the day to day reality because that is what she wanted to know.

Or the fab head leaves...or any head leaves, and new one takes it in a totally different direction...or your kids class just happens to have the worst group of mal-contents in the schools history...or....

I also know a school which got an Ofsted comment on how well it dealt with bullying, that even loyal/senior teachers were surprised/shocked by. Never mind the comments of one of the difficult pupils, who despite lots of learning difficulties had filled his questionnaire in, and his comments didn't even seem recorded in the tables (he should have at least been a 1% in all the sections for discontented).

Whaaaaaa!

Happygardening, I am sure you did give your honest view, and this is really something I value MN for (as I said, I didn't mean to offend )

I think I am probably over-analyzing and it's time to start being less critical!

The problem is that we're not all looking for the same thing and our view of any particular school is often affected by our recent current experience. I also think its a bit like many relationship exciting in the beginning and you chose to ignore little niggles but as the years go by and the novelty wears off the niggles become more annoying and the promises you have been made don't come to fruition and you become disillusioned and loose site of what good and what made you choose the school in the first place. God I sound bitter and twisted.
I think we also have too high expectations and for those paying £30 000+ a year this is not surprising. But the reality is that a school cannot function properly and treat 700 pupils completely as individuals or turn Tim (nice but dim) into a rocket scientist.

Don't worry Auroborea it takes more than that to offend me.

The mum who PM'd me about my DS school asked very specific questions I think this is where we often go wrong we don't ask specific enough questions. I told her our honest experience and left it up to her to decide if that is what she looking for.
Another good way is to talk to non teaching staff they often have a different take on a school years ago we looked at a well known school for DS1 we were as usual hopelessly late for the open day and shown around by a Boarding house by a matron unbeknown to her she completely put us off. It wasn't her in particular just how she described the place. Years later we found out from a friend that everything she said was true ( not what was written in the prospectus).