Competitively rank students by results say Gove

[noblegiraffe]

Our esteemed Education Secretary has praised an academy in London which ranks pupils every term by their results in each subject.

Now I'm sure that parents of the kid who comes top will be pleased and proud, but what about the poor kids who are less academically able or who have SEN who are destined to by told term after term that they are rubbish? That their achievements, though they may be the product of hard work and great determination are of less value than a more academically able student who has slacked off and winged a good result on the test? How will that do anything but completely demotivate them and destroy their self-esteem?

What the fuck is he thinking?

If any of you have any respect for Gove as Education Minister, I sincerely hope that this changes your mind.

'I remain surprised that a teacher especially someone you term a "great teacher" would be averse to recognising academic excellence.'

We are really talking about ranking and competitive ranking. Progressive thought over teh last decade and a half has been against this. Many schools even scrapped competitive sports days. So I am not surprised that most teachers have coime to agree with anti-competitive ranking since that is teh climate that has been encouraged by progressive policy for many years now.

I said that Gove making an issue of sending a King James Bible to every school is "pretty" irrelevant to improving education in our schools. Whether people read the King James version or teh New whatever version won't make much difference to children's future in a competitive, globalised world where other subjects are much more important. Are schools to hard up to buy their own copy of teh King James? What is he trying to prove? If they can't afford a King James, maybe he would have been better to send them the Complete Works of Shakespeare instead.

claig - I don't know whether high achieving students get awards from politicians - I suspect not. I think exam boards send letters to schools telling them if students get in the top 5/10 in the country.

Yes, noblegiraffe. I suspect it is all done quietly so hardly anyone knows. That is why I like open celebration and widespread open recognition of how important education is and what a fantastic achievement it is for any child to be top in the country.

They need to roll out teh red carpet for children like that and for their teachers and schools. Gove ought to get in teh ministerial car drive to Land's End or wherever and personally shake teh hand of that pupil. Education is one of teh most important things for teh country, it represents teh future of teh country and achievement should not be hidden under a bushel.

Children like that should get free computers, free books, monetary rewards etc. etc. and it should all be publicised widely so everyone realises its significance and importance.

Thanks for your clarifications, Claig. Your comments about the impact of "progressive thought" put the discussion in a useful historical perspective.
Off to work now!

Don't get me started on the progressives

Children like that should get free computers, free books, monetary rewards etc

As a rule wouldn't top achievers already have computers and books and the monetary rewards will come when their school achievement leads to top achievement in higher education and a well paid job. Not that it always happens, of course.

Also, some top achievers would be extremely embarrassed by any kind of fuss.

'As a rule wouldn't top achievers already have computers and books'

I don't think so. Being a top achiever has nothing to do with being in a well-off family. If you read about these super bright children passing A levels at teh age of 8 etc., they are not all well off.

Also I don't know anyone who would turn down more gadgets and books etc.
The monetary rewards should come now as a reward for achievement now and as a demonstration of how society values their achievement. Who knows what will happen in the future, they deserve rewards now.

Yes, I agree, top achievers are often embarrassed by the fuss. I hated going up for prizes etc., I was too self-conscious. But I am sure teh powers that be could arrange other ways of rewarding pupils. Mentions in the press, prizes and rewards in the post etc. The pupil should be allowed to choose what they want, a bit like lottery prize winners.

OOOhh I could think of a few Competitive Moms at our school who would simply relish the idea of this!! If they could have a chart showing book band colour 'top to bottom' - they'd love it. Time spend doing homework - love it. SATS positions - love it.

Madwomen. Strange though, the same Band of Bitches were less keen on the sports day race winner's name being called over a PA system....

"prizes and rewards in the post"

I thought you wanted the high achievers to be publicly recognised and rewarded? I don't think the winning football team gets the option of having their trophy put in the post.

Would you still want monetary rewards and gadgets for the highest achievers if it turned out they all went to private schools, or selective hothouses like Tiffin?

"Many schools even scrapped competitive sports days. "

Not secondary schools I would have thought.

By the way, claig, my reluctance to rank all students doesn't come from 'progressive thinking' but from my experience of having to deal with bottom sets day in and day out and seeing how they feel at being at the bottom of the rankings. Also, once, just once early in my teaching career I allowed a class to persuade me to tell them the worst score in a test as well as the average and top score (they always ask but I say no these days). The girl who got said worst score burst into tears and ran out of the class. That led me to resolve never to do it again. I also tell classes that everybody else's scores are their own business and that they have no right to demand that someone else tells them what their score was if they don't want to. This is why I don't tell them who got the top mark - I say it's not my place to tell them other people's results, and they always find out from each other anyway.
I am considering revising my policy of not telling students who got the top mark in light of people's comments about it treating the top mark like a dirty secret. But I also feel that praising the top mark just because it's the top mark would feel wrong if I know the person who got the top mark didn't work for it or could/should have done better.

Claig - this discussion seems to be sliding around all over the place.

I don't think there is any school in the country that doesn't celebrate the kids who excel academically - push to get their pictures in the paper etc..

I don't think that is controversial. What is controversial is whether they should publicly rank all the pupils and publicise this information within the school (or maybe more broadly - perhaps pictures of the lowest achievers wearing dunces caps in the newspapers at exam time ).

You say that publicly ranking all pupils is not about shaming low achievers. What exactly is it for then? I just don't see the point other than to humiliate them (and maybe dissuade the less motivated ones from going to that school in the first place - that is also good for the school's ethos and league table rankings)

This is not the same thing as publishing rankings of football teams or athletes, whether in the olympics or the local half marathon. If you compete in one of these events you are already better than 95% of the population and are measuring up against an elite.

Also difference between how other countries reward and recognise exam performance with public ceremonies etc... and how its done in the UK seems to be largely a function of the timing of our exam system. You get your results in the summer after you have finished school, so there is often no opportunity for a big prize giving based on exam results.

Schools do have a KS4 presentation evening, to collect your GCSE certificates.

"prizes and rewards in the post"

I thought you wanted the high achievers to be publicly recognised and rewarded?

Yes, but if teh student doesn't want that, then it should be mentioned in the newspapers and in teh school newspapers etc, so that it is still public

'Would you still want monetary rewards and gadgets for the highest achievers if it turned out they all went to private schools, or selective hothouses like Tiffin?'

Yes, because it is about the children and their success, not which school they go to

Yes, noblegiraffe, I don't think it is a good idea to read a register and say what mark everyone got. But a ranking at the end of a term in a corridor is not so explicit. But I do now think from your arguments that it could be only teh top 15 pupils say, and there is no need to print everybody's rank. The top 15 would act as an incentive for people to get into that band, but there wouldn't be shame for those who didn't make it.

Himalaya, yes i agree with you. Noblegiraffe's arguments have made me change my mind. I don't think all pupils should have their ranks publicised

'But I also feel that praising the top mark just because it's the top mark would feel wrong if I know the person who got the top mark didn't work for it or could/should have done better.'

I think the top mark is important. Whoever gets top mark is very proud of doing so and wants to maintain that position, and second and third place want to get top mark next time. If the third pace pupil last time becomes first place this time, they want others to be told. I think that is healthy competition. It's like the competition in tennis to reach teh world number one spot and maintain it.

I am not sure on its own it would make things better, but it's a small step in the right direction and I do agree with the sentiment.

What incentive do children have to achieve academically? It's not celebrated in most schools; it's not celebrated at home or in social circles (can you really go round telling people you got all As?). These days it's much more acceptable to tell people you or your child won a medal/play for a football team etc than your academic results.

This sadly reflects what we value in our society; celebrity and sports celebrity culture are at an all time high and children have those as role models: why bother doing maths and english? All I want to do is sing and play football. At school everyone wants to be like the child who wins all the football games, nobody wants to be the "geek" who gets all straight As. I don't know how we can change that but it is a reality in most schools.

'nobody wants to be the "geek" who gets all straight As. I don't know how we can change that but it is a reality in most schools.'

We need to reward and praise academic achievement much more, we need competition and prizes, we need academic role models on TV and less rappers, we need spelling bees and many more inter-school competitions in maths, science, languages etc,, quiz competitions between schools with good rewards and lots of publicity.

Pupils and parents will respect Teachers as professionals only when politicians do.

For the last 20 years we have had a centralising interfering view of government that is not happy with broad brush targets.
When the National Curriculum came in it was short and aspirational - I have an old copy here in my office.
Over time it became more dumbed down and more prescriptive.

Gove is happy to leave teachers to it
so long as they teach Florence Nightingale in year 8
Nuff said.

Claig I totally agree with what you said there: "We need to reward and praise academic achievement much more, we need competition and prizes, we need academic role models on TV and less rappers, we need spelling bees and many more inter-school competitions in maths, science, languages etc,, quiz competitions between schools with good rewards and lots of publicity."

I don't understand why schools do not organise such things, surely it would not be that expensive to arrange? (ie inter-schools competitions). Locally to me it's only the private schools that organise these things, which sends the message once again that being concerned with or excited by education is "elite".

Yes, i don't understand it. It's probably to do with money, not enough funding, because I guess that extra-curricular activity needs to be paid for and does take a lot of time, organisation and travel expenses etc.

I've no problem with recognising high achievers, but surely in some schools ranking everyone is going to lead to as much competition to be bottom as to be top?

Also, it's an important anniversary for the King James Bible, and the language is so rich that there is really no comparison with modern versions. It became an important part of the daily fabric of many British lives for centuries.

But did Gove really have to write his own foreword, like he's the flipping Queen? What a delusional little twerp.

(actually, I'm told he's quite nice socially, but prefer to stick to my own narrative).