Competitively rank students by results say Gove

[noblegiraffe]

Our esteemed Education Secretary has praised an academy in London which ranks pupils every term by their results in each subject.

Now I'm sure that parents of the kid who comes top will be pleased and proud, but what about the poor kids who are less academically able or who have SEN who are destined to by told term after term that they are rubbish? That their achievements, though they may be the product of hard work and great determination are of less value than a more academically able student who has slacked off and winged a good result on the test? How will that do anything but completely demotivate them and destroy their self-esteem?

What the fuck is he thinking?

If any of you have any respect for Gove as Education Minister, I sincerely hope that this changes your mind.

Indigo, if what you say is true that the school think it is ok not to attempt to teach her to read and write then that is obviously not good enough. However, I don't have a particular problem with work being differentiated so that she can access the curriculum - if she can't read or write then this is better than her falling behind in science and maths etc because of her literacy problems.

But the school shouldn't be saying 'well, we tried' and washing their hands of the problem - what on earth will happen when she gets to secondary school? Does she have any time at a Dyslexia centre? Aren't there reading programs for dyslexic students and intensive support available?

I don't think this is a problem that will be solved by the school telling her that she's rubbish, because telling her she is rubbish but giving her no support to improve would be awful.

sorry involve

She doesn't have a statement. Nor does she have any time at a Dyslexia centre. Nor is there a dyslexia centre she could go to. School have followed all of the EPs recommendations.

They're attempting to teach her to read and write. They are just not succeeding.

She's working at a level 1 in reading and writing - so a Y1 standard in Y4.

Telling her she's rubbish won't help. Telling her the truth however, is a better strategy then lying-by-omission.

She won't cope in secondary school. I have no intention to send her to secondary school so that she can be babysat for another 5 years before failing all her GCSEs.

How do you think all your kids who enter Y7 unable to read and write got there?

So what does the EP say? Is she dyslexic? SpLD? Speech and Language? Global difficulties?

So they are doing some literacy with her, but she's finding it difficult to grasp it? (not quite the same as not teaching her, which you said upthread).

I understand your frustration but I would seriously recommend following the EP's advice at home too.

The EP says her cognitive abilities are in the 98th percentile, and she has dyslexia. So school are now happy because they have an explanation for why she can't learn

The EP didn't give any recommendations for me to follow at home. And his recommendation for school was to continue with everything they've been doing for the last 3 years.

She does differentiated literacy with the whole class, and gets 10 minutes a day 1:1 with a TA. School are pleased with her progress, although she's still a level 1, which she was at the end of Y1.

And school are very pleased with how hard she tries, and how happy and confident she is.

I applied for a statement but she didn't qualify.

But this is just one story amongst many. You all know how many children reach secondary school unable to read and write. Sometimes it's blamed on dyslexia, sometimes it's blamed on other things. It doesn't really matter. The end result is the child is failed.

not teaching you to suck eggs

So she's dyslexic. It seems the school is doing what they can - paired reading at home with an adult can help, as well as coloured overlays (let her pick her own colour which makes it easier for her to read).

Anything she gets should be on coloured background - does the school give her sheets on coloured paper? Otherwise ask for an overlay.

I'd argue that it is really important that she doesn't start to feel like a failure at school, and that she enjoys it so that she keeps trying. I can see where the school is coming from if I'm honest.

If she doesn't have a statement she doesn't have the funding to support a lot of 1:1 work.

Coloured overlays only help children with Irlen's syndrome, which is very rare. (she's been tested for it and doesn't have it.)

Of course you can see where school is coming from. All teachers can. That is because you're only looking at it from an educational point of view.

And most parents of dyslexic children are happy with it as well.

But I'm not. I'm not happy and I won't give up on expecting her to achieve to her potential - which in her case is top of the class.

It doesn't matter how hard she tries if she's not expected to achieve anything. Whatever she does is considered fabulous. So why should she try even harder?

More 1:1 won't help her. That's not what I want.

All I want is for school to have high expectations of her. And that they will never do.

All I want is for school to have high expectations of her.

But what would that mean in practical terms?

noblegiraffe, I did do all those things in maths (apart from ask for extra work - unless it was algebra, which I have a slightly geeky love of!). Does that mean you would consider I did put in lots of effort and deserve an 'A' for effort? Maybe it does, but it didn't seem like effort to me, and I also did things like dividing up the questions with my friend so we did half each and shared answers, then could spend the rest of the time playing games. I also would try and get out of doing homework if I could.
I'm just not sure how possible/meaningful it is to grade effort in a lot of cases

• Expect her to learn to read and write.

• When she fails her IEP (every time) not say that it doesn't matter, and make the next IEP even less challenging, but instead recognise that what they're doing doesn't work and try something else

• When they put her on yet another intervention, be clear what the intervention is meant to teach her and whether or not it worked.

• Not give her a scribe or a laptop. (She's quite happy to write, it's just that she can't spell at all, so nobody can read what she's written.)

• When she doesn't make progress in terms of NC levels not say that she has made progress and she's doing well.

• When the EP has made no sensible recommendations at all to go back to the EP and say they're not happy with the report, or go to a different EP.

• When I bring in private reports with clues in it to the cause of her difficulties to discuss them with me and work out what we can do to help her.

• Don't put her in the bottom maths group because she can't read. (Fixed this one - after several complaints)

That's a good list of suggestions IB and it is a real shame that the school doesn't take them on board. Glad you at least managed to sort something out with the maths.

It is a good list of ideas. I would make a fuss about the IEPs to be honest.

I do see the school's point of view because I know how restricted they are by resources etc. But there is no excuse for them not having high expectations.

IB it's a funny one isn;t it?

The universities manage dyslexia (and so many otehr forms of SEN) so much better than schools- why is this?

Can I ask why they said she does not qualify for a statement?

She didn't qualify for a statement because school told the LEA (in June) she was working at a L2.

But in Sep when they did their start-of-year testing she was back down to a L1 :(

Every single year she gets a higher grade in July then she does in Sep. :(

I can complain to I'm blue in the face, but I don't think it will help. I've already burnt all my bridges at one school by complaining (a lot). I don't want to do that with this one.

I don't want her to get a statement, anyway. I'm very clear on that. (And actually regret applying for one.)

Peachy - I think by university you're working with very different people. ie you're working with 18 year olds with adult brains. So things that will help them can't be compared to things that will help younger students..... Also of course you don't have the extremes of SEN to deal with, as they won't have made it far enough up the education chain to go to university.

Indigo actually my uni experience is via Dh who has dyslexia and support LOL: my own field is autism so probably IS some of the extremes. But my friend who has very severe CP is ay univeristy now and would not have stood a chance without thr eight input early on.

I have 2 ds's with autism (one very HFA and hopefully going to uni, one with complicated ASD that makes it a complete no-no; he's literate but refuses to read or write and has problematic non epileptic absences frequenlty- several a day). I also am close to completing an MA in Autism. So I hope my experience is wide.

Are you aware of the group SOS!SEN? They are similar to IPSEA but easier to get hold of (!) and IME have more sheer fight.

Indigo, why don't you want her to get a statement?

I don't understand why you don't want her to have a laptop if no one can read her written work otherwise - don't you want her to be able to demonstrate what she can do?

If jabed thinks the first time a child is graded is at GCSE time then I don't know where she has been for the past couple of decades

Noblegiraffe,
Firstly I am a man. Secndly I have been around the block a few times as a much older dad. I was at university before most of you were twinkles in your parents eyes I suspect.
As to where I have spent the last couple of decades - I was provost of a top university for part of the time. Before that a senior lecturer and a professor. More recently , following an enforced retirement (early) I worked in an independent school and just before that, a state school.

It is RE yes

Mummytime - I go back much further than you I am afraid. Final marks and degree classifications were a process used back before you were born.
It is true that essay marks were always withheld but that was the days when all degrees were awarded on final exaninations only.

Sorry, I thought you were male, then amended it because I couldn't remember why I thought you were male and went with the mumsnet probability. My apologies :)

Did you state school not use national curriculum levels then?

Did you state school not use national curriculum levels then?

Absolutely. But the way they manipulated things for league tables , it was never a true reflection.

Noble - she is worse on a laptop, then when writing unaided! It's a thoughtless generic strategy they are trying to apply.

She has no fine motor skills problems, so there was no reason to every suggest it.

I don't want her to demonstrate what she can do. I want her to learn to read and write. That is the only thing I want from school.

I'm not willing to go to tribunal to get a TA who won't be able to teach her to read and write, and who will just be used as a reader / scribe for her - something I don't want her to have.

If no-one so far has been able to teach her, and the EP has run out of ideas, a (probably untrained) TA is unlikely to be able to teach her.

I would have thought that the point was that a laptop has a spell-check?

I know you want her to learn to read and write, but I am surprised that you don't also want her to learn science, geography, history etc. The school is trying to help her access the curriculum and demonstrate what she knows despite her literacy difficulties. They can't just take her out of all lessons until she can read and write - especially when there is no money from a statement.

She can't read well enough, or spell well enough, to be able to use a spell checker. You really need quite a good level of literacy to be able to use one.

If she can't 'access the curriculum' then school should have properly supported my statement application. As they didn't, I'm assuming there are no problems in this area :)

She's not learning anything in science or history or geography. But a laptop won't help her.

Not learning anything? Not from listening to an explanation or watching a video or doing an experiment?