Are your summer born children under achievers or high flyers?

[whoknowswho]

An article in the telegraph suggests August born children struggle at school by the age of seven and are more likely to take vocational quals than go to a top uni . My very late august born DD is thriving at school (Y2) top of the class and loving it but she's still very young so this could all change I guess. What are your summer born children like?www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8860219/Summer-born-children-less-likely-to-attend-top-universities.html#

DD was a late July baby and she flies in some subjects (she's 7) but takes longer to catch on with others, once she's caught on, she tends to speed ahead. So far thanks to brilliant and patient teachers, she hass finished each year aheadd of her peers after shaky starts.

Sorry not read all the posts...
my first is mid August born, wasn't ready for school. School saw his height and assumed he was older and therefore expected too much of him. He was a late talker and potty trainer, so during nursery and reception his language skills required lots of work and there were always 'accidents' (taking up TA's time to sort out). He struggled all through infants, my concern was he'd fall behind but he managed to keep up and was never in the bottom group for numeracy, literacy or reading, so we never pushed him any harder! He is much less mature than most of his peers and so still finds it hard fitting in. In juniors they've challenged more and he seems to be progressing well. But it is clear he is behind his peers in attitude and behaviour even if not entirely academically.
DD is April born and was ready for school a year early, she is at the top of her class for everything. They simply are different. I partly wonder how much my ideas of my DS not being ready for school and not being that academic are reflected in his unwillingness to apply himself because he has less expectations from me to live up to. It's all so complex and so many factors influence children's ability and performance!
Personally I did really badly at school (mostly C's at GCSE, an E at 'A' level), I am more clever than that but I hated the peer pressure of being 'a square' at school so dumbed myself down to fit in, but once you pretend for a while you can't/won't do something, it kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, so I ended up not being able to do any better! So my hope for my children is that the same won't happen to them, that they will be free to be clever or whatever they want at school, not feel they have to fit in all the time! Also I'm trying hard to not label them all the time (very challenging) so that they can have more freedom to grow and develop as they need to.

My late july born DD (due mid aug) is a high fligher. Pretty much always was. Always rushing to keep up with and win against the september borns.

THen again my January born is shaping up pretty well too and the May born youngest is winning prizes that DD won- but a year earlier (eg DD1 got the form prize in yr 8 onwards, DD2 has already won the yr 7 prize !).

What I would say is that the summer born has crap motor skills compared to the other 2.

I would agree with the beeb that summer born bright kids do very well because they have to be "brighter" to outperform those in their school year.

BUT remember all the bias in this opinion poll! Parents on mums net are going to be on average brighter, better educated and socially more affluent than those not on mums net surely, and therefore out kids are a bright bunch regardless?

Disclaimer: I haven't read the research but I did listen to the radio 4 interview..

I don't really understand why people get all affronted and think that because they/their dc are August born and did brilliantly at school, this must all be bollocks. The researchers looked at data from three large studies that followed children through school into adulthood and found that, on average, summer born children did not do as well as those born earlier in the academic year. Of course there will be children born in August who get top Oxbridge degrees, but on the whole, unfortunately the stats predict that they will probably not achieve as much as their older peers.

FWIW, I have an prem August born ds who would have been in the year below if he had made it to his due date and a July born dd. I do worry a little, especially about ds as he struggled through reception, but now he has gone into Y1 it seems like a lot of things have "clicked". There are lots of other factors that have an effect on a child's education so all you can really do as a parent is help your dc along as best you can - it's kind of pointless worrying about when they were born because you can't do anything about it.

BTW DD1 was in a study through primary about this and the conclusion of that was that summer borns are disavantaged a little but that the real problem lies with summer borns who were prem- so due in september/october but who crept into the school year above.

An aquaintance has "Irish twins" one 1st sept and one prem just creeping into the same school year at the end of august. The younger is a girl and has academically out performed her brother pretty much from the start!

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I repeat something laready said.

I was September born and put up a year (my school did that quite often - my best friend in juniors was January born, bless her, so much younger again). My recollection is that it hinged on how quickly you could write your "b"s ("a"s and "c"s being considered much easier) but hopefully it was actually more thought out than that.

I did ok and actually appreciated having the extra year to play around with later in life. My friend left the UK at 11 but has done pretty well in her career as a lawyer so her extreme youth doesn't seem to have affected her adversely.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the summer born/Autumn born thing can be more of a problem for boys given their tendency to mature academically and socially a bit later than girls. My DB was Autumn born though and the extra year did him little good. He didn't really mature academically (he never had a problem socially) until he went to University in his late 20s and has done well ever since.

My DD is late aug baby, i've always been aware of fact shes a year behind, socially shes immature although she is confident, her fine motor skills are also not as good, There are 4 Aug babies in her y2 class~2 top set, 2 bottom set I think it's a question of a childs self esteem to how they perform and how competetive they are...My DD I always thought wasn't until halfway through y1 when suddenly a light clicked on and now she likes to try to be the best. However there is a big devide still, with regards to pecking order, the older children really do think they are more able than their summer peers...Teachers should maybe work on mixed social tasks in their classrooms..

The answer is clearly to bump up the GCSEs of all August-born children by one grade I shall start a campaign. Justice For August Borns!

The statistics are very telling esp with sporting achievement

Ah, that's an interesting point because it actually depends on the sport; different sports have different cut off dates or criteria (it's not all August=youngest). For instance, in cycling December babies are the very youngest in each competitive class. In Judo everyone over 8 is matched with equal weight and grading opponents, but not by age; hence being small for age is an advantage, birthday month becomes irrelevant.

fwiw, since the thread is mostly about anecdotes not statistics, the most atheletic child in DS1's yr group (in Norwich City's youth dev. programme & great long distance runner among other things) is an August born girl.

I do believe that anyone born more than 2 weeks premature and in August should be allowed to defer school entry a year, that'd be quite reasonable; just being premature brings its own disadvantages quite often.

it's a mistake to look at the issue in terms of how well a child is doing compared to the rest of the class.

I always compare my summer born to other DC by actual age, not year group; on that basis he's doing fantastically.

Theas18 please explain the term "Irish twins"???

I'm with GRAMERCY...justice for August borns..!!

One other idea to throw into the mix is my old chestnut of cause and effect.
It's not always as straight-forward as it at first appears ( especially when reported by sensationalist media )

Whilst I'm sure that most differences could be to do with younger children struggling more as just not so developmentally ready for tasks asked of them, there could be other factors too ....

I know from talking with friends that some parents from well-educated and aspirational backgrounds do plan to have their babies in the autumn to give them an educational advantage. But of course they're already at an advantage by having such aspirational parents in the first place, and of being very much planned babies etc.

Also, listening to the discussion about this on radio 4 today, several people mentioned the effect of our expectations of children. So, not just the direct effect of their age, but the additional effect on self-esteem of being labeled in the bottom set etc. - The effect of success breeding success.

DH born in June: top of his school; Cambridge Uni and city career.

His brother also June: has a Msc in languages.

I am sure for the average person it is true but for children who are bright it will make no difference at all.

Do people believe their personal anecdotes and experiences negate all the statistical research??

YOUR summer born by be brilliant, but statistically they do less academically well on a number of measures.

20% less well than their cohort is very statistically significant, but of course still means 80% will do as well, or better.

But 20% suggest some underlying disadvantage, as obviously children born in august are not less bright then those born in September, and a systemic disadvantage needs to seriously considered.

A system such as the Scottish one where children born after Feb can either start that September, or delay for a year if they need it developmentally, and some do some don't, as this thread shows, often it the boys who need more time, would go a long way to addressing this unbuilt disadvantage in the system.

FWIW, I have two averagely academic summer borns, (where are all they average children on MN ??? There don't seem to be any, and they are the majority!!!), who I think would have benefitted academically and socially from starting school a year later.

I'd have opted for this if there had been some choice and flexibility within the system to take into account discrepancies in development of young children.

Oh gramercy I couldn't agree more ... 'In Reception the teachers are full of talk about awareness of who is born when, making allowances, etc etc.

But... fast forward even to Year One, and no-one knows, no-one cares. So your child born on August 31st, who has just turned five, is being treated exactly the same as the one born on September 1st who is already 6.'

If I had a pound for every teacher, TA, deputy head, head (any adult he comes into contact with) who has said he should be better behaved, know how to put his shoes on the right feet, for a Y1/ Y2/ Y3, 8, 9, 10 year old, etc. when I have had to point out just how young DS1 is. Of course, despite being the second youngest in his year, he is the tallest.

Why don't teachers know how old the children in their class are?!? The parents' evenings where I have to point out that he is only just 5, did his SATs when he was still 6, etc. for them to defensively argue that he should 'know better'. Umm, actually YOU should do your job better and know the age range as well as the educational range of your children.

changer I just kept reminding them. As often as necessary.
I know some were probably rolling their eyes behind my back, oh here comes Mrs Wordfactory, her DC would be genii if only they were born in September, why can't she see her DC are just a bit average? but I didn't care. I had faith.

And I was right.

can you not now defer though fro prem children? DS is in a school nursery, he is Sept born but has and overcoming with a lot of help, a severe speech delay. IN his class are twins, boy and girl, whse date of births are the Aug of the year he was born so making them actually slightly older than him, therefore technically they should already be in Reception.

Oh and whoever said about Tesco and stacking shelves.........................................it's be a pretty grim shopping experience if we went and all the shelves were empty, so to those people who have that job, I'd say it was pretty important too

I guess my poor speech delayed 3yr old (and very late August born) DC is totally screwed then.
Not even a job stacking shelves for her no doubt...

She was only 2 weeks early. Here there is the option of deferring a year but only on the condition the child skips Reception and joins his peers for Year 1.

To be honest I would take this article with a pinch of salt. My eldest daughter's birthday is 30th August and has just started in Y5. She has been registered as gifted and talented for both maths and literacy and thrives at school. She is also very talented at sport, representing the school for Athletics at county level and competing in Nationals for Gymnastics next year. My other daughters birthdays are March and October and are both also doing very well at school. The only thing I would notice is that a summer born child finds it more difficult to socialise at school (especially with those children that are significantly older). All of my daughters best friends also have summer birthdays. Outside of her small group of friends, she likes to play with the boys, partly I guess because of her love of sport but also because she can't get on with the social hassles of the "girly girls".

In my opinion, how well your child gets on at school is far more likely to be driven by the influences and support they get from home, rather than when their birthday happens to be.

maxybrown, as far as I am aware you cannot defer prem children, not in our area anyway. What you can do with any summer born child is keep them out of school (and in nursery or pre-school) until they are 5, but they have to start in Y1. So you might find that the children in your ds's nursery will skip reception altogether.

I would have loved to keep ds out another year, but thought it would have been worse for him to start in Y1, where as other posters have said the teacher would not be as aware of his age. Fortunately his reception was very gentle and actually split the class by age.

I think splitting the Reception classes down the middle regarding birthdays would be a excellent idea with the end of March being a cut-off point for the older ones.
All schools should do it.

DS was born end of July, have always had to hear how he is at the lower end of academic achievement. At parents eve was told his nc levels (fine ) and pointed out to the teacher that if he was in the year below with his friend who is five weeks younger she would instead of telling me he is doing ok that he is doing really well. Her answer "I hadn't thought of it like that".....
Children shouldn't be compared against their year group but instead their age group. I have worried myself sometimes thinking DS is not doing as well as he should but when looked at for his age group he would be at the top. Children are labelled far too easily as the bright/ slower during primary school, dd is october born and they are forever telling me how clever she is. My answer , yes she is but she is also one of the eldest and second born.

yeah obviously dd's august birthday is the reason she is only in the middle group for literacy (writing) when she is in the top for maths and reading. can't possibly be anything toi do with her hypermobile joints making it difficult to hold a pencil and very hard work for her to write.