If you could afford to send your kids to a private school, would you?

[juicychops]

or would you choose for them to go to a 'normal' state school?

just curious what your responses will be

Piss - my DH also used to appoint people in a highly technical industry - many PhD level. In general he found candidates who'd been to GS, followed by good university to be the best bet. Very few, unfortunately, made it through from comps. Those educated at private schools more variable - some excellent, would have been fine anyway - others who really weren't. Having been to a mediocre private school himself - survived by teaching himself A levels - he wasn't taken in by surface gloss. You can't fake it in science. DH is very much of the opinion that the country as a whole has been impoverished by the widespread destruction of the grammar schools.

Huge generalisation, I know, but IMO highly technical industries are not as attractive to the kind of socially-aware, highly verbal English public school population as professions, media and politics...

Agreed.

You have to have a degree in a scientific discipline which are often far more difficult and a bloody good one at that. Oh, and a PhD helps.

Most people won't manage to do this, regardless of schooling.

Bottom line, meeja is less about brain and more about bluster.

lol @ xenia
[[http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/trendy-teachers-cheat-the-poor-and-lay-the-groundwork-for-riots/story-e6frg6zo-1226143966471
This]] is an interesting perspective though...and yes, I would sent mine if we could afford it - probablt not for primary, but certainly for secondary.

'scuse typos - babe in arms.

The article linked to is by a teacher who claims that state school teachers were not at all surprised by the london riots - such is the standard of behavious they see day to day in their schools...

british mad obsession with education is just a displaced discussion on class. have lived all over the world and nowhere are people so obsessed with education as some panacea to overcoming the class system and as the only route to success. I really think this needs a review....

I agree suzydelarosa

ahhhhhhhh

sense, at last!

and what's happened to the OP.........?

My daughter's school actively encourages sciences and has lots of girls going on to do science based courses. NO girls went on to study media courses at university last year. 35% of children at the local comprehensive did.

Yes both my sons do, I went to my local state schools I'd never ever send them there.

Is it the general opinion that if we could only afford to send DC to either private primary or secondary, that it should be secondary? I'm sure I've read that in several posts, that it's only worth sending them to secondary.

I've always thought that till recently when I actually think that I want DS (who is a terror) to be in a smaller class in good private primary with good resources to keep him occupied and happy. Suspect in a class of 30+ he would just be up to no good all the time, especially if he doesn't manage to get in a good school that's not stimulating to him, he'll probably be the one disrupting classes. Once in secondary, he should be mature enough not to be a silly terror of a kid anymore. Is this plan flawed?

lollington, I don't think that was referring to media courses at uni, but rather people ending up in positions of power in journalism and politics. So they might do English or History at Cambridge, then end up running a newspaper.

suzydelarosa - I agree, but it is not exclusively an English problem. I saw exactly the same problem in the US (lived in NJ for nine months) and Australia (lived in Perth for 8 months).

People seem to think they can simply build high walls to keep the feral underclass out. They can try, but it is not a long term solution to the increasing problem of social inequality.

I can and I will.

timtosleep I read any article with some educationalist type in either Sunday Times or Telegraph recently which said that if you are going to go private for secondary or primary make it primary, because if a child fails to get the building blocks in place they are crippled for life. So your thinking is not flawed at all. If our situation changes later so that we can no longer afford private fees then at least DS has started off with the advantage of lots of one on one attention.

My DH and I both went to Oxford from "bog standard comps". Most of our friends there also went to state school. I think we had a much better understanding of real life than those who had been privately educated and a better ability to get on with a wide range of people. I also found that the teaching I got at my school was excellent because I was so interested. Most of the teachers I had used to go the extra mile to make sure that I was being stretched.

There are things which are not as good in the state sector. You won't get a classical education (Latin, Ancient Greek, Ancient History etc) at many state schools, poss a few of the old style grammars still do it. There is a lot of value in this and I do sometimes think I have missed something by not having this. The extra curricular stuff is often better too but you can get around this by using out of school clubs. Large class sizes do also have a impact and, where I had the choice at school I used to sit at the front (using my hearing as an excuse). You do also get to mix with the "right" people to get on at private school - for instance a lot of work placements still come out of knowing someone's Dad at school. I think if you want to break into the top professions from state school you do need to more actively manage yourself and push yourself forward for experiences. It's great training for life if it pays off though!

I am just about to apply for my DC1 to go school. We could afford to send her privately and most of our colleagues do so but we are going to apply to the local state schools. The two nearest do both have a good reputation but I'd be happy for her to go anywhere with a grade 2 Ofsted report, a decent head and a good ethos. She is bright and sociable so I think she'll enjoy school. If my DCs struggle in the state system or only get into a poor school I would consider private education but it would not be my first port of call.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that great facilities make a great school.

The state comp I went to had some of the best facilities i have ever seen in either the state or private sector. Large pool, enormous sports hall, tennis courts, all weather pitches, sports grounds so expansive that you could stand at one end and not be able to see the other end. Lots of new and well equipped science labs etc etc. Yet it was an academic wasteland due to its history of being the local secondary modern, still with the same head nearing retirement and only wanting a quiet life.

As soon as a new energetic head came in everything started to change, and it is now the most sought after state school in the area, and rivalling ocal private schools for results.

So to answer the OP - I would pick the best local school with an inspirational head who expects top standards in all areas of school life. And that is not necessarily the private school.

And I would agree that the issue of picking up contacts at private schools is ared herring. I made loads of good contacts from my Russell Group university and this really is where most people make those important contacts as that is where they are mixing with people in their field of interest. No one gives a stuff where you went to school, it is your results that matter.

Georgimama Thank you for that. I was starting to think I'm making a mistake visiting prep schools for my DS and that I should be looking into secondary instead. Is that article one that I can just read online? I'm going to have a look to see if I can find it.

State school teachers unsurprised at the riots would also be unsurprised that a small number of top schools feed into top universities and help perpetuate a divisive education system and a divisive society which impoverishes us all.

The example given of the educational attainment of our judiciary rather evidences this too as the system has both a historic and current inability to deal with our diverse society. Members are often entirely representative of the restrictive system that created them.

Fundamentally I believe that if a school isn't good enough for one of my children then it isn't good enough for other children either.

Oh, Ghoul, my DDs comp do Latin for the top stream
from yr 7, and everyone studies Spanish and German alongside French from yr 7. most of the local private schools do not offer all this.

Her school is so great that I have been able to find absolutely no reason to stretch to private for her. If our local stae was not so good, however, I would go for the private option.

Basically I would advise anyone to look at all local options and choose the best option regardless of sector - not like the local mum I knew who paid for private throughout even though she lived 5 mins walk from this outstanding comp - and she had never heard of it!

gerrgimama and timetosleep - I would also agree about primary vs secondary. We have done just that.

The much-vaunted small class sizes are much more important at primary when all the basic skills are being learned and individual attention is so much more important. Once basic skills and learning habits have been instilled tye child can cope much better with larger classes. In fact, they are probably better off with a larger class, as long as everyone in it is of similar ability, as the opportunity for interesting discussions and class projects is so much greater.

My DD is loving y7 in our local girls comp due to her good grounding in a private prep which means she is used to coping with regular homework and is very disciplined in organising her own work. Her achievement in primary has meant she is in top sets for everything and is mixing with very bright hard working girls who are expected to achieve highly. She really thrives in a large group.

If she had been to an average state and not developed as well due to lack of attention in the early years she may not have been in such a good position and would probably struggle at a private secondary where such a lot of previous knowledge is taken for granted. Though I do think setting from the outset is important to make sure everyone is stretched to achieve as much as they are capable of.

We have the money but we decided not to go down the private route.

We've opted for excellent local state school with mix of kids and backgrounds - better for our dc we think.

Also don't want them feeling like poor relations of the super rich kids. My dh and myself know all about that.

Carrots - that sound great. So many schools don't teach languages well and I personally think it's very important. Latin teaches a lot about structure of languages and grammar and I think it's a shame it's not more widely taught. I do think classics are still important at many private schools but not generally available at state school. Of course they are not the most practical subjects but studying should go beyond what is simply practical.

I also recognise the type of parent you describe who goes private because if you're paying for it it must be better. Many of my colleagues and neighbours are planning to go to pre-prep despite the very good local primaries. In fairness the local schools do get very oversubscribed but I think the worry about not getting names down at birth for private schools forces them to make decisions which are not even best for the families. I want to be able to send my kids to a school we can walk to where both my kids can go together. As I have a boy and a girl the only schools offering this are the two local state schools. Other friends are making their lives difficult for themselves (by for instance having to drive a long distance to school or have their kids at different school) out of an unspecified fear of the state system. It's bonkers and it perpetuates a two tier society.

pissfarter tbh I wouldn't have a clue what sibjetcs are considered the most rigourous. I'd take a guess at law, medicine etc

I was referring to the studies and observations made by the universities themselves...that independently schooled students are overrepresented on these courses. They then go on to be overrepresented in the best paid and most influential jobs.

As I say, whether these students would have ended up there anyway is moot. I look at my DC's peers and all the advantages they have before school is even part of the picture and I wonder what factors have most sway.