If you could afford to send your kids to a private school, would you?

[juicychops]

or would you choose for them to go to a 'normal' state school?

just curious what your responses will be

Spero - I think it is much less about the mediocre-but-wealthy muscling out the bright-but-poor than about the bright-and-wealthy muscling out the bright-but-poor. Mediocrity doesn't get you far in our competitive and meritocratic times - you've got to be good at what you do - but networks sure help the bright move ahead.

The Outliers

I know there are some people who genuinely believe in the egalitarianism of state education. However, there are those who do not admit the effectively privileged experience of state education their children are experiencing, making it more rarefied than many independent schools.

People who live in prohibitively expensive catchment areas make those schools' intakes socially quite exclusive. Maybe more exclusive than many independents which offer bursaries. Many of these state schools are on a par with independents because of fundraising/ expectations/ involvement etc.

It does seem a bit smug and indeed hypocritical to tut tut at parents who are not so fortunate and have to search for an equivalent experience in the independent sector.

I would also suggest, if you take the country as a whole, pupils would get to know more pupils from other cultures in the independent sector.

Oh I don't know Bonsoir; I have a sister who amrried into a group all eduated privately and mediocre would be a compliment to some of them (and a few admit that!) yet they all have a sort of confidence and snese- not of entitlement but of belonging with the successful if that makes sense- that my higher qualified sisters and I simply never got from our sink schools and council estate.

Would I send the boys to private? Not sure. DS1 and DS3 are in Sn palcements that i think for them are as perfect as it gets so no, not unless those palces were threatened. DS2 agina I am not sure- he's lovely andf inquisitive and bright but I am not sure academic and certainly where I am the privates value bright as the primary trait. Takes after his father really- ahppy to sit building lighting circuits and excels at art but just not a pen and paper person.

DS4- yes I would. To the right palce- a nurturing school I know of. He's bright and is following ds1's path of some exceptional abilities (ds1 at 6 had a speech age assessed as 16 -21; as high as it goes, and certainly he always ends up leadings chool councils etc despite his ASD). I think the right school could turn him into an incredibly successful person but the local village school- despite being one many choose when they could afford private- isn't right for him.

JohnSuart yes but only to an extent; within the cities certainly but we moved from a council estate somewhere expensive to a stunning village somewhere cheap (yet same ditance from DH's place of employment) and gained the great school without a rising cost in living expenses.

Took a LOT of research though to work out where to land. And just a bit of luck.

Agree, Bonsoir.

No worries, slug. And I apologise for putting words into your mouth. It's just that I get really fed up with hearing the same old thing on MN with regard to private/state. There's always someone saying, "ah, I know someone who went to a top private school, and he's a druggie waster, ergo all privately educated people are druggie wasters" or "ah, I know someone who did really well at a medocre comp, ergo everyone would do well at one" - when in truth every individual school, private and state alike, has its own strengths and weaknesses, and there is no such thing as a school where you are guaranteed to get perfect behaviour and perfect academic results. There will obviously be thick, druggie wasters and bright, motivated teenagers at all schools. But if MN is sometimes to be believed, all private school children are rich, thick and substance abusers, and all state school pupils are hard-working, clever and morally superior.

However, Slug, you didn't say any of that, and I am burbling off at a tangent. Thanks for clarifying what you meant about kitchen staff. I would be very peeved if my children's school were involved in such practices, and I would not think that my money was being well spent.

JohnStuartMills: I agree.

Wordfactory: ditto. If I need to consult someone (consultant, lawyer, accountant, journalists), I talk to people in the playground. They just happen to be the people there, but I suppose that's 'networking'. If I wanted to consult a farmer, I'd find a few of those there too.

I agree to some extent Bonsoir. Some qualities can't be faked.

However, from what I have seen of friends with children at private schools, the great majority are also tutored, during evenings and at weekends. I am sure that with enough expensive and extensive tutoring children can be pushed up a few levels beyond their natural abilities, at least temporarily.

The real issue seems to be not so much the divide between state and private education but the appalling social apartheid that seems to operate in the state system now. The 'nice' primary school in my area appears to be entirely middle class, reflected by the prices of the houses in the catchment area.

If I could afford it I probably would send my dd private - but it would be with a heavy heart and some real fear about the society we are creating.

What is wrong with a governement policy that EVERY school should be a 'good school'. To say we have 'choice' in our schools is offensive nonsense. I can't just up sticks and move house to be near to the 'good school'. I want my daughter to be able to walk to a school where the teaching is good, the discipline is ok and she can meet a variety of people. I don't think there is any chance of that happening in my life time and that is really sad for us all.

Spero, recent developments in cognitive science show us it's possible to 'get smarter', 'cells that glow together, grow together' etc. I always get hot under the collar when people talk of children 'tutored beyond their natural abilities'. IMO intellectual capability is not set in genetic stone. Anyway, other than that I'm with you.

Meant to say that IMO intellectual capability can develop over time, isn't set in stone and ability doesn't have a ceiling as such.

completely completely agree about the confidence thing

Some people know and can do an awful lot more than other by virtue of the fact that they have had the opportunity to learn more skills. This has very little to do with "natural" intelligence and an awful lot to do with parenting. If you have more skills, you likely to go further in life.

absolutely. I really do not get why anyone wouldn't- especially those that have never set foot inside one.

You might not agree scarlett, but surely you understand. Just as I understand why people send their children to independent schools.

scarlettsmummy we send our children to a state school despite being able to comfortably afford not to for several reasons:

1. The catchment school is superb, utterly superb .
2. We walk to school]
3. we are part of the community
4. Most of my kids are g&t and the school is excellent in that area.
5. My kids are all super confident already and very sporty so don;t need extra push at the moment.

All schools are different and if we had any problems we'd move them sharpish.

Scarlettsmummy2 we had the chance to educate ours privately with fees paid by my employer (expat deal). We already disagreed with the principal of private education for our children. This was an easy principal because with 3 DCs and moderate career prospects we couldnt afford it anyway.

Any road up we really had to decide when someone else was prepared to foot the bill. Our conclusion was that we wanted our children to be educated in our community. This meant the local school at the bottom of the road not being bussed to a different town.

Now that we are back in the UK our DCs are still educated in the community at the state secondary. It is not a good school but it is on the whole doing its best. DD1 is realistically targeted with straight As in mainstream subjects. What else can I ask for or pay for?

I have to confess being completely ignorant about recent developments in cognitive science but from bitter personal experience am rather sceptical about this idea that there is no ceiling 'as such' to capability.

But I am sure I would have done much better at say, maths and physics, if my parents had had the money to pay for a private tutor. But I strongly doubt I would ever have given Einstein any sleepless nights because there is certainly a ceiling to my mathematical ability.

scarlettsmummy2 - I was educated privately. I visited my 'brother' school frequently as a child. I have many friends who educate their children privately. So I have experience of private education. I see the downsides as well as the up. Your inability to recognise this doesn't bode well for the education of your children.

"DD1 is realistically targeted with straight As in mainstream subjects. What else can I ask for or pay for?"

Many, many, many things, Gnome. Straight As are pretty low down on the list of things I'm wanting from my DC's schools (straight As are generally a given, especially nowadays. If that's all I wanted, I wouldn't bother with private schools!)

snort @ Aeoline.

Indeed

Hmmm. I'm going to refrain from any vainglorious statements about the ease of achieving straight As until at least one of mine has passed public examination age, I think!

Agree with points on both sides here! am a teacher who sent kids privately at 11 - I did not want my children to be overlooked in favour of the C/D boundary kids, or the attention seeking idiots (if you don't think that happens you ain't been inside many state secondary schools!), however let them choose to go to state 6th form college, where they have mixed successfully with a broad range of people (although not got the A level results they might have in the independent sector). That was what I thought was best - it's a tough call for parents, you never know what might have been. HOWEVER - a word to the wise if you think your children are lagging behind academically in primary - they are not, most primaries teach much more interesting, creative,up-to-date stuff than prep schools; where they are lagging behind is in the PE. Prep schools really give kids great opportunities for games and athletics.
Interesting thread!

I have to say that I agree private schools tend to smash dd's school at sport - I suppose they spend Wednesday afternoons on hockey, and have more clubs and so on, whereas dd tends to do a bit of this and a bit of that and if you fancy showing up to play in hockey match then that's very good of you! But that's the only obvious thing I can think of.

I certainly don't think she's been over-looked in favour of C/D boundary kids - in fact there are quite a lot of parents here who say they put their C/D kids in private so they wouldn't get over-looked in favour of the A kids!

As I said, I think I would be very rash to make statements about the ubiquity of getting all As until we get to that point!

I was state educated at a not very good school. I definitely do not want this experience for my children.

I felt I had to struggle to get to where I am now with the education I had. There is no comparision when I discuss with my husband who was privately educated.

So was I, stripedcat. And actually when my oldest was in year 4 and got some good SATS results, my impulse was 'I don't want her where I was, what else is there?' . None of the private schools where we live offered any really helpful bursaries or scholarships, and so I forgot the whole idea, and I have to say I'm glad I did.

Yes I would send them. However, probably not until senior school as primary school is excellent.
Have to disagree about privates being better at sport. That is one thing which my dcs state secondary school excells in, nowhere better in our region at all.

Spero - the point is that you can get incrementally better at most things, we can go on learning. We can achieve more than we might think. Maths not a strength for me either and whilst rocket science at an esteemed university might not be a sensible course for me with a great deal of effort an A* in an entry level qualification (maths GCSE) shouldn't be beyond my reach. if I don't understand it's about revisiting, reworking and practice until I do.

I think a tutor or excellent teacher can make all the difference personally. I rose 5 grade levels in one A'level subject because a young tutor (an undergraduate) taught me in a way that I suddenly began to make connections and more importantly adopt a growth mindset and believe success on this scale was possible. The mind is powerful.