If you could afford to send your kids to a private school, would you?

[juicychops]

or would you choose for them to go to a 'normal' state school?

just curious what your responses will be

I do know how good state schools work as my DS1 is in one and don't get me wrong it really is jolly good; top performing comp. in county, fab teachers etc. But ultimately my DS2 independent school wins hands down.

So why aren't they both at this winning school?

I'm unconvinced about the old boys network thing; my husband was educated at one of the 4 schools that sent more to Oxbridge than 2000 others combined (Sutton Report) but he's never benefited from the old boys network and neither have any of his friends. You also have to remember that many of the top independent schools are highly selective so their pupils are more likely to become doctors or barristers. At DS2 school most are in the top 3% so it stands to reason that the vast majority will go to top universities and enter professions like law also many children follow in their parents footsteps and ultimately doctors and successful barristers are the type of people who can afford massive fees.

The bottom line Pissfarterleech is that DS1 is not clever enough.

To the independant schools near me? No.

There are some very nice schools out there, though, that I would consider if I lived near them for DC 2 and 3.

independent even.

Not if the behaviour of the kids from the local schools are anything to go by!

The 'old boy network' exists at all levels not just in private schools.
When I was at school it was farmers sons who were the most disruptive. They didn't need O levels and their future was more than secure. It's still the same with lots of jobs. The only post 16s I know with jobs are working for family/friends or because a family member 'put a word in'. DS3 has just started an apprenticeship and even they wanted to know if anyother family member worked in a similar industry.

Agreed nagynolonger, if it was examined how certain students came by those truly stellar internships (the sort that everyone wants) many might be surprised. The parents and family of those concerned usually have power, money, influence and connections.

Having said that if the intern proves useless they won't last and they would need the relevant academic qualifications to begin with.

I have to agree that getting juicy internships is one of the huge benefits of a good network. DSS1, who is 16, has already done internships in a luxury watch company (founded by two university contemporaries of my DP) and a City brokerage (wangled by his godfather). And DSS1 had several equally exciting choices of internship each time he did one. I know DSS1 is über lucky...

Thanks CustardCake.
'jellybeans - the old boy's network is as alive and kicking as it ever was. I don't think there's any secret about this. People are certainly able to improve their chances of getting valuable work experience in early life and a leg-up for referals and work sent their way in later life via who they knew at school (certain schools at least).

There was a BBC programme a while ago called "Who Gets the Best Jobs" which proved overwhelmingly that attending private school increased your chances of entering a top job and that having family connections is as important now as it ever was (possibly more important) in terms of getting helped into a career.
Only 7% of children are privately educated but more than half the top doctors seven in 10 judges and six in 10 barristers went to independent schools.'

I think I will try and watch that programme you mentioned. That last statistic is quite telling. I have heard about it before. I wonder if it will be affected by universities being encouraged to take more state pupils though.

I agree that the exam results are good often because they are selective. the top sets at my DD's state school usually get all As and do early A levels also getting As. So in many cases a bright child can do well anywhere. I think some employers would look better on a child who worked hard without any privelege. Or might you be more proud if your child had done it all for themselves, in terms of getting a top job without networking. I don't know, I am just thinking out loud.

I do think this old boy thing is rubbish unless you happen to go to Eton, Winchester etc. I can't say my crappy old private girls school has made a blind bit of difference to my networking - my university did, but I got in there despite my school rather than because of it. And even if you do go to Eton, as my brothers did, it only helps you if you happen to run with the alpha boys which neither of them did. In fact, they were bullied and it took them years to recover. I do wonder what century people are living in when they think that the social contacts you make a private school will help you.

Polly, networking is alive and well & undoubtedly brings advantages (see previous posts from me, Nagynolonger and Bonsoir). Agree with you that being at private school doesn't necessarily give you useful social contacts for life.

My DH was talking to some barristers once and they said their chambers wont even short list old Etonians because they find them arrogant! Before every mother of an Etonian hurls abuse at me I accept that this is a generalisation and I'm only trying to make a point re: the old boys network myth.

I want to enroll DSS2 and DD at a very well-known US summer camp for next summer. The camp in question only takes three French children in each age grouping at any one time and requires an introduction from a bona fide former camper, so it is really hard to get a spot. I have a great introduction and our children have already been informally accepted before the interview. That's the kind of network that procures advantages.

I am shameless when it comes to networking - I give out all the time so that I can call in favours when I need them

happy I can't think of a top set thatdoesn't have old Etonians in it to be honest...so that might be an urban (wishful) myth.

As for networking, it is most definitely alive and well. But you have to be the sort of person who is prepared to recognise that in order to benefit from it you will have to work at it. Simply expecting somehting because of where you went to school or university will leave you sadly disappointed.

However, during work experience time, for example, most parents will call upon friends, colleagues and other parents for reciprocal favours, in much the same way that we do lift shares etc. But you have to be part of it to benefit.

Another example is how a friend of mines son wants to sit the entrance exam for x school. He is uber mathmetical but his english is just okay. She asked me if I'd sit with him a couple of Sundays and take him through some papers. I agreed. No doubt if ever I need a favour she will be only too glad to help.

Definitely. Partly because of where we live. If we were near a fantastic secondary school, not necessarily. On the other hand I went to a private school and more than anything I think it gave me a great deal of confidence.

Oh Dear Aeoline, I'm sorry if I offended you. It was merely observation from a career on both sides of the public/private divide.

Just to clarify a few points. One school I worked in, the kitchen staff were, almost exclusively, recruited from the usual pool of itinerant Kiwis and Aussies. Without exception they were all graduates, several with more than one degree. It wasn't unusual however for the teaching staff to have a HND or less. Granted it was a boarding school in the wilds where retaining staff was difficult at best, but I've witnessed one of the kitchen hands being roped in to take the Economics lessons when the regular teacher went ill. The kitchen hand had an undergraduate degree in economics and was a qualified accountant. The regular Economics teacher had a HND. Neither had a teaching qualification. The fees for that place were astronomical.

Student's raising their hands in exams, asking questions (I've seen that in both private and state schools) but only in private schools have I seen the questions being answered.

Getting children statemented is not a way you manage children out of a school, and to suggest such exposes your ignorance of the issue. Statementing in excrutiatingly difficult to do. The LEAs fight tooth and nail to avoid statements as statemented students carry increased funding. It costs them money. From the school's perspective, statementing is a good thing. It means there is extra cash (however little) to actually give the support students desperately need.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think "Private school children all take drugs" from. They were rampant everywhere I worked. Granted, you offered a better grade of class As in the posh schools, but you did have to put up with being treated like the servants.

Interested to hear the opinions of parents whose kids are already at state secondary? Especially kids that are 'middling'. Would you send them private now, knowing what you know, if you could afford it?

I went to a private school and there were no drugs at all. Cigarettes from about 16 was about as illegal as it got. The kitchen staff were all older women. It was a top 20 school no boarding with a third of the places being assisted places though so the focus was definitely on brains not cash.

wordfactory - my dbro got into his private day school at 11 by getting 100% on the maths test and barely 50% in the English due to the Real reading scheme failing for him. My mum had to go in and talk to the headmaster about him.

The social contact thing is a crap argument for private school. My private school gave me the chance to achieve all A's in every exam I took and the confidence in my capabilities to know that I can do whatever I want.

That's what I want private school to give my kids.

I don't think you can generalise to be honest!

We moved from London to a small country town, great local state schools, all looked good for the future - but by the time my eldest was ready to leave nursery the school in our catchment area was having real problems. If we'd been able to get dc into a different state school we would have. By the time the dcs were secondary age the single local secondary had failed its OFSTED and had 6 heads in 2 years (eek!). We were lucky to have ILs who were willing and able to help with the cost of a local non-selective private school. I was also very unhappy about the SATS pressures that their contemporaries were being put under (their school didn't make a big deal about tests, they just happened and were part of school life!)

OTOH If I had school aged children starting now I would be MORE likely to send them to those same state schools which I think have done a great turn around. A good headteacher makes a huge difference!

I think you just make the best choices you can for your children at the time - within your resources. that might mean moving to a more expensive house in the catchment area of a 'good' state school - or choosing private - but parents just have to do what they think right at the time. We were hugely fortunate to have the choice of private - without my lovely in laws that wouldn't have been such an easy choice to make. I was a teacher in the state sector pre dcs BTW and it would never have occurred to me that my children would go to private school! 2 out of the 3 haven't left with great A levels either (lazy little sods) but they do have a huge amount of self confidence. I was also impressed with the breadth of education they got, sports, drama, activities, trips. The school had a lot of non-academic kids and felt its job was to find what each child was good at and encourage them in that.

Networking happens in every world. I have worked in the film industry. Huge numbers of kids running around as assistants, whose parents are cameramen or in lighting, sound etc etc. (Not the highly paid film stars but the grafters.) It is like the old apprentice system. Nothing to do with wealth but the way the world works, like it or not. People naturally do favours for friends, be they bankers or butchers handing out apprenticeships.

coffeeaddict that's what I've always thought.

Contacts are shuddered about here on MN. Yet in my experience they are just people I happen to know. So the fellow parents at my DCs schools are mostly law, finance and commerce...so I have contacts in those areas.

I also know lots of people in the media and publishing through my own work.

I've never understood why these contacts are considered bad.

Word factory, I worry about 'contacts' because I worry about the mediocre but wealthy muscling out the bright but poor. I believe in a meritocracy but think our current system is more about using your financial advantages to win opportunities for your children which they might not have got if competition was truly free and open.