If you could afford to send your kids to a private school, would you?

[juicychops]

or would you choose for them to go to a 'normal' state school?

just curious what your responses will be

can't afford it but do anyway

young I don't understand. How do you pay the fees if you can't afford them? Do you have a tab?!

Go on the AeloineRees can you list these extra things that you are getting by paying x thousands a year?

I really am interested to find out what I am missing out on.

Hard to explain if you haven't experienced it first hand as a pupil, never mind as a parent. I think it essentially boils down to confidence (not arrogance, as some people interpret it - that's a different and horrible thing). The secondary school we want our daughter to go to has 250 girls (no boys). That has to give children a very different sense of 'self' from a school with 250 children per year group. Everything else comes from that - or it certainly does in my experience. If you put a random selection of 18-y-os in a room, you would almost certainly be able to tell who went to a private school, who went to a grammar, and who went to a comprehensive.

Then there's all the extra-curricular stuff, minority subjects and so on - though I think they're less of a draw than the confidence thing.

Spero:

'however, from what I have seen of friends with children at private schools, the great majority are also tutored, during evenings and at weekends.'

Don't know which schools these are but my two have never ever needed extra tutoring. Either in state primary or now in private (very) academic secondary. I hear or one or two children who need this but they are exceptions. Definitely.

Aoleine that's just bollox.

My kids have the poshest accents and are confident in every way.

My DH went to a sink comp and is CEO of multinational and is the most confident person I have ever known.

Confidence comes from personality, home and family and school.

PFL, I never mentioned posh accents! Nor did I mention your 'kids' personally.

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

Abra1d - thing is it's not about the children 'needing' tutoring. I know plenty in the top 5% or 10% of their class who are tutored, in some cases for 6 hours plus a week (including weekends). Depends what you mean by tutoring really. Some of these are less than 8 too. Believe me, it happens. It's the mentality of turning A into A*, upper middle set to top set, 'bright' into 'gifted' etc.

Whilst this probably isn't going to be a good idea I was surprised on this thread by someone that said they didn't need private school etc, their Kent grammar was excellent, their DD was on course for As and Bs. I'd personally want my child to aim higher than that (if this was possible and appropriate), it's a competitive world out there.

So how do you tell the comp kids form the private school kids?
I would bet you a years school fees you couldn't with my kids and most of their friends.

You are talking utter, utter bollocks.

"I was surprised on this thread by someone that said they didn't need private school etc, their Kent grammar was excellent, their DD was on course for As and Bs. I'd personally want my child to aim higher than that (if this was possible and appropriate), it's a competitive world out there."

Cortina - I agree. People who live in nice, comfortable parts of the world (like the areas of Kent where there are good grammar schools) often get lulled into a false sense of security about the world, IMVHO. That can include not realising just how many skills a young adult will need in order to participate actively in the globalised professional world.

AeolineReed I'm afraid you still havent actually shown me anything extra I/DD would be getting for my X thousand. Claims of extra confidence or an ethereal 'otherness' lack the bite of being quantifiable (I'm an accountant so value for money is important to me).

I am sure that a small girls school will produce a particular type of poise. Does it take X thousands per year to teach? Is it a desireable quality? Other characteristics and qualities are encouraged by state secondary schools, a certain resilience, a certain independence of study, an ability to get on with things despite distractions.

Minority subjects and extra curricular activities are also available even in the mediocre (and ours is definitely in that category) state secondary schools. They will be different from those available in a small, selective and exclusive private schools but they are still there.

Basically, I think that an able and committed student without other problems and with interested, concerned and enthusiastic parents will do well whatever school they are in.

Interested, concerned and enthusiastic parenting for me (it will be different for others) is more than just making sure homework is done. It is about presenting the student with opportunities for extra-curricular activities (county music schools, cadets, drama schools, sports clubs etc etc). It is about holding the school to account (I have had my teeth in one teacher's backside for the last year and a bit). It isnt necessarily about spending a lot of money.

I'm not saying that the choices you have made are wrong, AeolineReed, they just arent choices I would have made for any of my DCs no matter what our financial situation was.

I hear ya Bonsoir.

There's a sort of almost sweet delusion isn't there. A finger in the ears, I can't hear you mentality.

I think a lot of young people have been given the impression that all will be well. They labour under the falsehood that being British, middle class and having a smattering of qualifications will be a passport to their dreams.

I send my DD to a kent grammar. I assure you anything less than a spread of at least 8-10 A*s is seen as a cause for concern.

GnomeDePlume I actually agree with a lot of what you said about confidence accent etc can be achieved in both sectors but if you think that "Minority subjects and extra curricular activities are also available even in the mediocre (and ours is definitely in that category) state secondary schools. " are even remotely on a same level with those found it schools like Eton Winchester and St Paul's than you are living in cloud cuckoo land. You say that they "are still there" but the variety offered by state schools can never be comparable with these schools. Just from a logistics point of view it cannot be possible for a state day school to offer the same as a full boarding school.

Pissfarterleech - I think there's a generic, 'stand out' type that's a product of the top tier establishment type public schools. A certain accent, a certain demeanour, turn of phrase/grammar etc the school also has a motto, a pervasive ethos and they shape the child's character to fit that mould. Kate Middleton's accent would probably stand out at a Kent grammar too for example (given someone mentioned accents) so I think that whilst you can't generalise you can sometimes tell.

The county, upper-middle class/minor aristo set also stand out - to generalise again they tend to be fairly tribal and easily spotted by a fondness for mustard or red cords and signet rings :). The devil is in the details, I girl I lived with at Uni had her signature embossed on her signet ring as her family were without a family crest (but had plenty of money). Whilst she might be at a comp or state grammar in earlier years this is probably unlikely given the way her parents were wired. Given these details I think Derren Brown could have a good go at getting it right if you asked him to distinguish. :). I am of course making sweeping generalisations here.

Sheesh, they really have lowered GCSE standards haven' they?

Back in the day, I got 8 A's at O level and that was quite impressive. DH got eleven and that was mega. He is Oxbridge First man and all from a shitty comp.
I'm more concerned, far more concerned, at the lowering of standards actually.

Yes, although I'd prefer to use a grammar school if available. I prefer the idea of selecting by ability rather than money.

(Definitely can't afford private BTW)

cortina, you're right to a certain extent. But that is family background as much , if not more than school.

My kids have that secure confidence that comes from having a pretty privaleged life but they don;t go to a private school.

And yet I know kids whose parents have scrabbled around for every last penny to send their kids and they lack confidence hugely. I mean, nothing can knock your confidence more than having friends back to your 3 bed semi after a day at their sprawling house riding their ponies.

We send ours to our local state primary and we do find that, being a middle class area with lots of professionals, etc..the overwhelming majority of parents offer plenty of tutoring and extra-curricular activities outside of school - this includes us.

However, my worry is whether one would be able to sustain this level of intervention on a teenager? I think there comes a point where school and home need to marry to a certain extent. It takes a very driven teenager to aim for an A* in a school where the majority of children get less than a C and where all the resources will be spent on getting the majority to a C. I really do believe that peer pressure/school expectations have a huge bearing on teeangers.

This is not so much about private vs state, I do believe that a grammar school education is comparable to a private one in this respect, whilst many many comprehensives are in the category described above. (although not all, clearly).

pissfart I often wonder where my own DC's confidence comes from. It pleases and yet startles me in equal measure.

Is it us? Is it their priviledged life style? Is it their school (independent)? If any of those were removed would they still have it?

I have come to the conclusion that it's a mixture of all of those things. School does most definitely play its part, but it is not the sole contributor.

We live in a three bed semi. and my DS2 at is at a top boys boarding school many of his friends are "county, upper-middle class/minor aristo" in massive houses with a couple of thousand acres and swimming pool etc. he is popular amongst the other boarders and stays in their "sprawling house" although not riding their ponies as he's not interested. He does not lack confidence in any way or feel inferior to these people. He has also learnt a valuable lesson money does not make you happy as these families are not immune from unhappy marriages/divorce/death anymore than the rest of us. By the way I have never seen "mustard or red cords" on any of them.

Again, I agree wordfactory

I think our kids see us and our confidence, our approach to life, the fact that we all love sports and some risky ones at that! That we are no nonsense parents etc etc.

That said, DD will go privately at Secondary as the school will suit her better. DS will probably not as he is super laid back, super cool and super brainy. ( not biased at all

happygardening that is really good about your son but it is not sadly ,the experience of every child who is mixing permanently with people in a different social situation.
My nephew had a bursary and struggled terribly and was eventually removed. The other kids were lovely as were the parents but he felt it and his self esteem fell. He is happier being middle of the road at his good state school where he now is.
There is research to show that humans are generally happier being among peers of equalish status. We don't like being with those consderably richer than us, as a general rule!

love makes a very good point. I hear on MN a lot that parents intend to make up any shortfall themselves through tutoring, extra curricular activities and 'enrichment' (was ever a word sooo smugly middle class?).

And I always think well that might be fine with one eight year old, two at a push. But three teens? Really? How many hours in a day do you and they actually have?

happy I have seen the cords. Both red and mustard. I have also seen the 'funkier' uniform of comabt shorts, crocs and fleece.