If you could afford to send your kids to a private school, would you?

[juicychops]

or would you choose for them to go to a 'normal' state school?

just curious what your responses will be

In a heartbeat, if I could afford it.

That's what i am concerned about Slug, the fact that i would be paying three grand a term just to have 10 less pupils in my dc's class.
There are bad teachers in both the state and private sector, but at least you don't have to pay three grand for the pleasure in the state sector.
However, i do believe that there are so many bad secondary state schools, that i don't blame parents who go private. At primary level,i still think that it is a waste of money.

Slug: I have also worked in both, and I'm intrigued by your comments.

Dodgy financial practices

Examples?

Unqualified teachers (very common in private schools) You know things are bad when the kitchen staff are routinely more qualified and educated than the teaching staff.

Expand, please. Kitchen staff are undeniably better qualified in kitcheny things - but if you're trying to say that the kitchen staff have PhDs and the academic staff have NVQs in food technology, I don't believe it. But, yes, there are some teachers in private schools who don't have a PGCE - though they'd struggle to find a job in a private school now.

Managing students who are unlikely to achieve academically out of the school as soon as this become obvious.

Yes, I came across that. State schools have other ways round this (like getting children statemented).

Coursework submitted to the exam boards that bear little (if any) resemblance to the work submitted by the student

Yes, in both types of school.

Exam practices that raised eyebrows

Like what?

Snobbery of truly epic proportions (and not just the students)

Yes, in both types of school.

Racial and sexual harassment routinely left unchallenged for fear of alienating the paying customers

Yes, in both types of school - though without the paying customer excuse in state ones.

As much violence and disruptive behaviour in private schools as in state ones.

Yes, there can be disruptive behaviour. Private school does not guarantee a cohort of well mannered, considerate children, esp. at secondary level (when you get an influx of children from outside). IME, though, private schools are quick to expel for this, and can do so quite easily.

I fear, Slug, that your post is yet another variation on the 'private school children all take drugs' theme. No school (either state or private) is perfect, and no school that consists largely of teenagers is going to be free from problems of one sort or another. But on balance, I would still say it is more than worth it for the range of opportunity (which, admittedly, some children don't give a toss about, and take completely for granted) and for the quiet confidence that good private schools manage to give even the dimmest pupil.

wonders what carparkmum said

Interesting this... My folks have set up trust funds for my DDs (instead of leaving all their loot to me and my DB ). They would very much like us to send DD1 to private school at 11 as there's a very good (girls) one nearby that I flat refused to go to when I left primary school. I did well at state school but not as well as I might have done as there was a culture of picking on the clever kids and boys really dominated and disrupted lessons. I think things have changed for the better in the state sector but I do think DD1 would benefit from being pushed a little more (as she is very bright but lazy) and from smaller classes. DD2 on the other hand has complex SN so the private school wouldn't suit her. Am wracked with guilt at considering treating them differently but then they are very different and DD2 probably more likely to need investment in vocational training etc. And I would count myself as a champagne socialist. Tricky.

Interesting that several of us who were state-educated are contemplating private for our DC. I recognise Chaz and sparkles' experiences. School just wasn't really that good for me or most of my school friends.

Am really concerned about rising class sizes in primary - I know a few teachers who're teaching classes of 34 or 35, and just can't see how this can be done!

Perhaps we all just do something different for our DC than our parents - probably in 20 years our DC will be negative about their education too, whatever the choices we make.

ElaineReese it was an advert for a book she had written on being a private school mum so I reported it.

I was state educated in a shockingly bad primary school but an average high school. I hated primary school and loved secondary school. I came out with good academic qualifications and continued into further education, getting a degree. I do not have a problem with state schools, I have seen some fabulous ones and met some fabulous teachers.

That said, I would consider private school for my DC's, but only if the state schools weren't good. I have witnessed some average-at-best private schools and can't see why people send their children there as opposed to state schools, apart from to say "yes my children are privately educated."

I suppose what I am saying is I don't care whether it is private or state funded as long as it is the best that I can do for my DC.

I was state educated badly (and bullied), DH was privately educated very well. We would both send DD private for secondary - not only is DH's old school well equipped in science and sports and does well with academic children, it also has wonderful pastoral care. I also think that the social network children get from private school is far more economically valuable than the same network from state schools. Private schooling isn't just about education, it is about getting to know a group of people who can help each other later in life with introductions, opportunities and information.

I would be as happy as a sandboy to send my DS private!
When i was nanny, the boy I looked after was at a private school and had aspergers. He would speak so passionatly about how much he loved the school and I was impressed with the schools level of knowlegde,care and attention they took in his work.

Depends on the child really. If I had a son who was confident, a self starter, good at getting on with people, ambitious and clever/sporty, I'd try to get him into a top boarding school.

But if I had a senstive quiet son who preferred his own company I'd think differently!

I was privately educated as was DH. We both thought our DD's state primary was far superior to our prep schools.

Many prep school are pretty rubbish in my now extensive experience if you are just looking at a narrow criteria. But what many who've posted don't seem to realise is that its very difficult/impossible to get into lots of the senior independent school if you have not been prepared (prep. get it) by one. The entrance exams are often a much higher academic standard than that found in even the most outstanding primary and most prep schools will try to prepare your child for the interview/pre tests etc. Prep school heads often have good relationships with heads of senior school and without a doubt this improves you child's chances of getting a place.
There are rubbish prep schools and rubbish independent senior schools out there and just like in all walks of life good and bad teachers. But without a doubt when private senior school get it right they will always offer an education and by education I don't just mean exam results and university places that is far superior to anything that can be found in the state sector. That is why so many would love to send their DC and also why many are so hostile to the idea because subconsciously or consciously they know that someone else's child is getting something better than theirs. This is only natural.

happygardening I'm not sure about senior entrance exams for year 9 but my year 6 state educated daughter was offered places and scholarships at 3 top ranking independent schools.

You may be right I know little about year 7 my experience is of independent senior schools which take at year 9.

My experience of having children at prep schools coincides with yours, HG. They spend lots of time preparing children for entrance exams. The majority of children end up being offered scholarships to all the top public schools.

My DD1 has a teacher who taught at a well-known local private school in our region and came back to the state sector because of the incredible sense of entitlement the students had - along the lines of 'I don't have to work hard because my parents are paying for me to be here' , 'You're only the teacher'. Lots of bad behaviour, no support for teachers trying to tackle it. She reckons the state school where she teaches now is much, much better despite its very diverse intake. I have to say from what I've seen, I agree with her - attempts at bullying DD1 very swiftly and effectively dealt with, with excellent communication too.

It strikes me that poor parents are everywhere, not just among the less well off, and that paying fees is no guarantee that you'll get a better education or a better child at the end of it.

I feel confident that I can support my DCs through GCSE at whatever subject, so that I can support the school in what they are doing. In 6th form there are a lot of good choices in my area, so it's state all the way.

Besides, I need to save for those university tuition fees...

I went to a large very average comp where I was bullied and ridiculed for being bright and 'swotty'.

I now have my two DC at a large prep school that belongs to a top public school. The education and pastoral care at their school is outstanding. They love going to school and have opportunities that I never had at their age. Dont know where all these unqualified private school teachers are, but they arent at my childrens school?!!

It is eyewateringly expensive, but IMO worth every penny.

Slug -

Don't kid yourself that what you are getting is a better education. It's just my observation, but when you buy private education all you are really buying is smaller class sizes.

I think there's a lot in that in many (not all) cases.

The thing is, smaller class sizes mean A LOT. It's my view, having also taught in both sectors, that they are one of the most important factors in quality of education. I've taught even quite bad classes with some really disruptive kids, who become suddenly calm and manageable when for some reason half the class is away.

Whoever came up with the idea that the way to "educate" kids is to corral them into groups of 30 with one adult to "impart information" to them (being unable to really interact with so many kids in the space of a lesson) got it badly wrong. It's a Victorian model based on woefully outdated ideas about both education and society. Private schools are automatically in a different league to state, all else being equal, simply because they are not sucked into this model.

Of course all else isn't equal, and that can cut either way.

Really I can guarantee my children are getting a much better education than the one I had!!

I dont think I will get a better child, but I do have two very happy children - one who is dyslexic - both doing very well at school

Callisto
'I also think that the social network children get from private school is far more economically valuable than the same network from state schools. Private schooling isn't just about education, it is about getting to know a group of people who can help each other later in life with introductions, opportunities and information.'

Can you explain that abit more please. Do you mean that you think children from elite schools end up in top jobs and help each other out in getting good jobs etc?

I can only speak for my DS he doesn't have the view that 'I don't have to work hard because my parents are paying for me to be here' he knows that he is very lucky to be at the school and is only there because we earn enough money to pay for it supplemented by a large bursary. He works very hard and makes the most of all the opportunities on offer. Others boys may have different views for all I know but frankly I find that unlikely. Our fees are £31000 a year this is a lot of money even if you really wealthy and I think most boys are aware of this and feel that they have work hard, the school also expects them to work hard and participate in a wide variety of activities. The sort of sweeping generalisations seen on MM by the anti private school brigade are made by people who do not really understand how good private schools work.

To be fair happygardening, some private school parents have no idea how good state schools work, either.

Callisto, ha, your post made me snort my tea! My DH went to Shitty McShitty Comprehensive. He does now mix with old Etonians, old Harrovians and even people from minor public schools, however. Though he tends to be the one employing them