Query for state school parents

[AeolineReed]

My children go to private schools. I have been repeatedly got at for this by colleagues/acquaintances/random MNers with children at state schools. We live in a town with decent state schools. Everyone I know cites 'principles' as the reason for choosing the state option, even if they could afford otherwise.

This same 'principle' argument seems to crop up on MN a lot - but I'm just wondering how much of this is based on living in a good catchment area? And if you have 'principles', do they extend to sending your children to a truly dire school if you could afford to go private?

Just wondering, as I am rather fed up with being the unprincipled baddy.

Agree Fay.

Agree Fay, Maisie and MuminScotland.

To be honest, in my area the private schools are raved about by many but when you dig about a bit you will find that they are not that great. There is a high number of drug and related incidents, a high number of the parents are what I could only describe as suspect, you know the type, dealing in import and export! or just criminals. Also the children in the high schools are known for their behaviour outside of school being a lot worse that those from the local state schools. I would never send my children to any of them. The other thing I don't like is at the local private boys school, after year 8 they dress in full business suits with ties and briefcase, it looks awful on the younger ones, 6th form yes but at 14, some of the smaller ones look like they have raided the dressing up box.

Suits and briefcases??! Surely not - how on earth do they manage to avoid the 'attentions' of the state boys?

Will try and stick to the question you asked. In our case, the "principles" have to do with being part of a community of mixed ability, mixed income, mixed social background etc. In other words, a school community that is representative of the community we live in, not just the most affluent proportion of it. I think that is beneficial, in terms of staying down-to-earth and not developing an over-inflated sense of entitlement. Which, unfortunately, does seem to be quite prevalent among children at our local private prep - not saying that's always the case, but it seems to be around here.

And no, we don't live in a good catchment area. We live in the catchment area of the primary school that several local families pay, or travel, to avoid!

However, we are genuinely very happy with the education our children are receiving and feel that the school is catering very well for their needs. I'm not sure how far "principles" would get us if we had genuine educational concerns. If I genuinely felt our children would suffer serious disadvantage through going through the state option, I might be willing to compromise for their benefit.

I was lucky enough to send my children to an excellent state primary followed by a highly regarded grammar. Not every one can do this and I would not judge on another's choice. However my local private secondary charges nearly £7000 a term day fees, so it's way out of reach for most people and would require more than missing the odd holiday to pay those bills.

I do think its about finding the right school for your child - whether private or state. That doesn't just mean the academics but also any SEN, personalities etc... I am a big fan of single sex especially when little, likely to get shot down for that but boys do learn differently and at a different pace and many co-ed (whether state or private) are so focused on the girls rate of learning.

6% UK children are at private school
BUT that is an average
in parts of London it is over 40% and around here its around 1-2%

Hampshire has some amazing Private schools but it has amazing state schools too
I was at private as were all siblings, youngest was at boarding
I cannot afford private - and was not willing to run the risk that only one of my two would get the scholarship to the selective private in Southampton
BUT
I took steps from the age of 4 to make sure my kids did not go to the local sink school.

A "principled" person would not look at league tables
the rest of us do what we can
ignore the sneers
you are doing the best for your Kids with more cash than most.

I have no opinion of anyone based on where they send their children I tend to judge pepole on how they behave towards other people- it's not generally the question I ask when I meet someone.
I have taught at private schools and went to one myself funded by lots of other pepole including the army so I was indeed an 'ordinary' person who went to one. I don't live on a hand to mouth basis but still consider myself to be ordinaryand as a result I can't afford to educate my DC privately. Don't have expensive holidays to give up either.
But if I could afford to I would - my DC would be the handful of ordinary people and I wouldn't let them lose touch with the ordinary side we wouldn't be able to compete with the posh upper class families anyway I was never part of the posh set when I was at school but I wasn't ostracised either.
I would choose private school for my own reasons mostly ATM DS is hugely sailing as his school does not differentiate and teaches to the lowest ability with extra worksheets for those who can do the other stuff- I'm not slating all schools his is just a little dull for him - I know a private school wouldn't necessarily provide any more but I'd have more choice.
A good education is a huge priviledge these days and generally you have a much better chance if you can afford to pay or afford to move into a catchment area and win the lottery for a good school.
As for others opinions of the OP perhaps they should form opinions on her as a person and not her on making a choice for her DC that she wants - I'm dead jealous of people who have DCs at good schools who are getting great opportunities but I don't hate them 'out of principle'.

You are right

If my local school were to go to absolute shit, I'd appeal or move, and I still think that's better than going private.

I think there is a confusion with thinking people are rabidly pro-state school and therefore should live in the worst place possible and send them to school there and see how you like THAT..... I think I'm as anti-private school as I am pro-state, really, and a private school education and environment would never be what I wanted for my children. And I think we're all the worse off as long as anyone is still doing that.

I am against the principle of private schools as I am against the principle of some state schools being better than others - I believe that every child should be entitled to a good education regardless of background - but as the system stands you get what you pay for - and if you're lucky you get a bit more than you pay for - but if you have money to live in a good catchment or to pay for private school generally you get a better education than pepole who can't afford to make those choices and get stuck in an area with only bad schools to choose from- private schools are the preserve of the rich and/or bloody lucky and I agree that as long as the system stands we will not have an upwardly mobile society and the private school educated pupils will go on to earn the high salaries which are the preserve of the top earning 2% who earn 80% of our wealth - all very truly what's wrong with society - I agree with all that and it is truly wrong it should be that way.
but... I'm a mum and my DC come above all else and if someone offred me the money to put my DC at that advantage I would take it - I have principles but I'll admit that as long as there is a 'haves' and 'have nots' society I would want my DC to be in the 'haves'

I've got two boys one at state one at independent. We receive a very large bursary significantly reducing the current fees of £31 000 per year.But I have no illusions that what we pay is still way above of what your average (normal) person can afford.
Frankly I don't think its principles which stops many parents who could afford it educating their children privately (day not boarding) its a lifestyle choice. We have decided to give up smart holidays, pension, flash cars, and a big house to pay for my son to be educated privately. Many parents talk about principles but when you actually push them they admit that they don't want to sacrifice other things for a child's education. Its a free society that we live in and I've got no problem with this but I do wish they'd stop telling me that I'm wasting my money and that I should send him to our very good local comp on a day school which is cheaper. I'm not stupid if I thought I could get exactly the same thing from either of those I would but I know I can't.

Once you've seen what (good) private schools can offer, you're likely to be hooked. We were.

Ah, I'll put you in the "Only the best will do" camp, then. .

I've heard some very unpleasant things about some of our supposedly "good" private schools. Unpleasant to my ears, anyway. It seems to me like some of the very things that hooked you in would strongly put me off. I suspect, OP, that this difference of perspective is possibly a fundamental underlying difference between you & your critics.

Our best friends have made the decision to send their eldest private and we have been very supportive (ours are state educated). It never crossed my mind to be anything else. After all it is their choice and I can see why they've done it.

Their experience has enlightened me a lot though. The school move has been positive overall, but has opened up a whole new host of problems. I don't think any school is ever perfect and one has to go in such an investment with their eyes wide open!

Malcontentinthemiddle - you say you'd move if the local school was no longer good enough, but surely not everyone in the local school could move so you'd still be leaving others behind in a substandard school while seeking out something better for yourself. How is that different from choosing private over state?

I have no principles about this. Dh does though - as a product of independant education. We can't afford it anyway so were spared that arguement. We did however move house in to a good catchment area - and school was the primary factor I considered when looking at houses.

I could afford private education for my dcs but choose not to. As long as the products of private schools have such a stranglehold on the top jobs in the City, media, Civil service and professions then society will be worse for all of us.

Plenty of people in social housing and low incomes have good and excellent state schools open to them - they do exist throughout the UK you know. However, for many parents (around here), the very thought of their offspring mixing with children from 'those backgrounds' is anathema.

Custard - I suspect actually my dh would agree with you - but we needed to move (not enough space in the old house) so it made sense to me to move to a location that we rightly assumed would mean a 'better' school. Ging to all the expense of moving house and choosing a location which gives your child a poorer education is just absurd imo. As I say though - we HAD to move. We did not move only for catchment area but simply because three dcs in a small two bed house was not working for us.

Maisie - I don't know anyone who sends their child to a private school so they don't have to mix with children from "those backgrounds" you quote.
It would be a pretty poor preparation for life if your child only mixed with affluent / high income families and although I don't dispute there are some people like that, it is not representative of my DS's prep school. Thank God!

I moved my child from a good state school to private several years ago. DH went private and adored it. He always wanted to do the same for DS if we could afford it and luckily there came a time when we could. He's thriving.

I have a problem on MN and in real life, the same as the OP's. People actually shun you, without knowing anything about you, based on where your DC's go to school.

By the way, as a parent in the private sector, you learn really quickly, NEVER to volunteer this information. You wait to be asked the question and then, you find that people who were initially friendly towards you, suddenly don't want to chat any more. It's not nice.

Imagine, if you were shunned by some people for sending your child to the local state school - I can't believe that happens often, yet some people seem to assume it is perfectly acceptable to "diss" people who choose otherwise.

It would be lovely if we didn't judge each other in this way.

I actually find the "principles" argument against private schools rather strange.

I say that because most people accept, fundamentally, that we live in a society where people have different levels of wealth. We all have our ideas of what size the welfare state should be, how much tax should be paid etc. etc. - but there are very, very few real communists left any more. So basically everything is predicated on an acceptance that, so a greater or lesser extent, there will be rich people and poorer people. Surely a natural corollary of that acceptance is that rich people will spend more money on their kids than poor people.

Now, if we accept that, it seems decidedly curious to claim that they shouldn't spend that money on education. Like, someone earns significantly more than they need to pay the mortgage, eat etc - it's perfectly acceptable to spend that money on plasma TVs, computer games, designer clothes, holidays etc. etc. for their children. But unacceptable to spend in on getting them a smaller class size or appropriate support for their musical ability or whatever, through private schooling.

This makes no sense. Education is a better and MORE worthy thing to give your kids than most of the alternatives. The fact that "not all kids can afford private schooling" is a bizarre argument when we don't apply such thinking to anything else. You don't look at somebody buying their kid something in a shop and say they're a bad parent, because some other kids have parents who can't afford it.

FWIW my two are in state. But we moved to a grammar area and put the oldest through two years of private prep to help ensure 11+ success. So make of my principles what you will. Having taught in both sectors I think there are advantages to each, but the overriding structure of 30 kids per class in state schools is just fundamentally wrong, and should have been ditched years ago. In an ideal world, my choice would be to pay the necessary taxes to bring that down to 20 for everyone, and my experience tells me that that would solve a majority of peoples' misgivings about even some quite "bad" state schools. But sadly, I don't get that choice.

It would be lovely if you didn't think your kids were too good to mix with mine. Unfortunately, you do, so yeah, I'd shun you. Feel the shunning - oooh yaaah! - and then comfort yourself with the thought of wraparound care and Latin. I'm sure you'll be ok!