is anyones kis NOT top of their class on mumsnet?

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In a perfect education system all children, regardless of their ability or interest, would have the attention and supprt to reach their full potential in all fields.

And we should value all sucess, academic, sporting, musical, social, emotional etc.

And that also includes the 'swotty' types...no-one should be sidelined. And no-ones sucess should be down played.

people agreeing with me

wasn't expecting that.

I completely agree with fennel too

Hausfrau, but will he be bilingual? I would give a great deal for that for my children?

fennel I cant agree. You seem to be saying that because the high achievers will be earning more when they are 22, it doesnt matter if they are held back to the pace of the slowest, and bored and frustrated at primary school. I think that is a very negative way to look at children.

I wonder how many of them would be high achievers in the end, if that was allowed to happen through the school system!

ds1 is, but ds2 not a hope, he shows no interest in learning at all would rather be a police! (oh and he is adamant that its police and not police man/woman)

Totally agree with Nightynight.

fennel's opinion is very interesting, I just don't know how I feel about it - something to ponder.

IME I think you have to factor in behaviour when you are talking about rewards and attention at school. Some will say badly behaved children get too much attention, others will say well behaved children are the teachers favourites.

Also IME, social skills, a sense of self preservation and plain old common sense do not always go with academic achievement - so the top of the class children may need more help than some of their less academic peers.

dropinthe - your aside gave me pause for thought

High achievers should be allowed to reach their full potential, no matter how much higher it is than anybody else's. It takes all sorts.

God knows we need some special and inspiring people to steer our country, and our planet, onto a better course for our children and our childrens' children.

Been thinking about this thread. I think fennel is right to an extent - a bright child who is ignored at school is in a better position than a child who struggles and is ignored. I know both types of frustration and the latter is definately worse.

But i disagree that the bright children "get all of the attention anyway". The brightest may get all the prizes but there are many serial runners-up who really do get ignored.

And how much of a problem that is depends on what you're talking about. It is a problem when a child is given work that is consistently below their ability. But if you're talking about a child having to read a few more level 6 books before getting a level 7, then it's no problem at all.

there are lots of special and inspiring people in the world despite the failings of the education system, sm. But they don't tend to go into politics.

Well if its any consolation my ds wants to be PM and/or Chancellor, he's also got a very kind social conscience which can only be a good thing
At the moment he is ruminating that being born in NZ might be a bad thing...

Senora they don't need to to make a difference.

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"Don't care which group he is in, as long as he does his best! " my sentiments exactly! Ds happens to be in the lower sets but he is happy and enjoys school, the rest will come later.

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But fennel, at this stage we aren't talking about achievement, we are talking about potential, which may, or may not be fulfilled. Kids like my ds, with dyspraxia, can absolutely sink like stones in schools which fail to realise their strengths and focus on their weaknesses. I believe my ds is bright and academically minded. He has problems in other areas. Read anything about dyspraxia and you will realise that for kids like him there is a huge leap that needs to be made for potential to become achievement, and many, many children fall at that hurdle. Often because of attitudes like that of the teacher you said that until Vickiyumyum's ds is achieving at sport and handwriting, his reading doesn't matter. It does matter, because it is what he is good at and what he can get a valuable and motivating sense of achievement from. Without that, kids like him and my ds can easily become school failures.

And we ALL want our kids to be happy. For some kids being happy comes when they are understood, given interesting work and stuff to do that challenges them.

Hooray for happy children! I went to my daughters parents evening last week,it was so serious.Come on she is only 5!

Really though Aloha recognising brightness wouldn't be enough for a child with a severeish level of dyspraxia to get through school. They are always going to need an IEP at least because otherwise the cogs that turn in schools are never going to cope with the level of difference between written and receptive work. Mainstream schools are generally not good at providing an individual curriculum. And differentiating between strengths and weaknesses that may differ considerably.

The main problem is when a SN like dyspraxia which gives an uneven profile is not recognised. With recognition the teachers etc should then be "allowed" to think outside the box and a suitable method of expression developed.

This thread has turned into a really interesting, thought provoking debate. (She said, in a Mrs Merton style.) Now there's a surprise.

See what happens when you raise people's sights and allow them the means to work to their own ability, rather than simply dumbing down? Suddenly things go all deja vu on you. Anyone would think this was Mumsnet 2002.