school uniform - yes or no? anyone know of studies / evidence on this please?

[Abelia]

I'm a Governor at a small primary school, very mixed intake in terms of family income and we were thinking of reviewing the school uniform - we currently have uniform but may get rid of it.

It was only a casual discussion in a sub-committee, but I think we may get ahead of ourselves in going ahead with asking parents / pupils, and wondered if anyone knows of any evidence or studies about uniform, costs, social divisions etc?

Alternatively if anyone has experience of their school going from uniform to none, or vice versa, why and how it worked, that would be really interesting to hear.

The brief argument is of course that on one hand, uniform costs money (although ours is standard supermarket fare, logo'd things are available but not compulsory). On the other hand, uniform is a good leveller. I can't work out which would be best.

I would hate for the uniform to be a worrying extra cost for parents (and it is very hard for parents to say they need help of course and I don't think we have any right to set out to ask that question of parents, even in confidence). On the other hand, does having your own clothes make it all the more competitive to wear the right stuff, and therefore even more tricky for those on low incomes to help their child feel comfortable at school?

Argh. Help!

ivykaty's done the links, but the thread does reflect general gut reaction; we can't help buying by looks, whether it's food or learning. I admit freely that I appreciate as much as the next person not having to engage brain in the mornings, and no matter how hideous they look, the things last and last and last, don't they? On the other hand, like my kids, I wouldn't lose any sleep over not having uniform either.

Whether uniform affects a school's reputation - St Paul's Girls and Camden Girls (two very different but very effective schools) don't have a problem, though examples for boys elude me. (As to possibly why, I won't go there!)

Business dress is the code for sixth form in most places now. Why not introduce that idea across the board? Remembering that dress codes have never relieved City firms from the occasional need to remind some staff that clients may get the wrong idea of the service portfolio if skirts are too short, et c.

The photo in the dreadful guardian article shows exactly why we should have uniform. The kids have just swapped one uniform for the another which is far more expensive!

I grew up in a country with no school uniform and I wouldn't say bullying was any worse for that. Having said that, I do quite like a cheap uniform as it saves money and tends to wear better than most other children's clothes; half our stuff comes from the charity shops and it doesn't show.

I doubt if your academic results would be affected either way; I'd say the main factors here are things like parental attitudes towards learning, not what colour trousers you put on in the morning. When a change in uniform goes with an improvement in results or discipline it is probably because it is connected with a general shake-up of that particular school, not because of the uniform per se.

I agree, super-simple uniform is easiest for parents and doesn't underline social inequalities so strongly.

Supermarket trousers/shorts/skirts/school dresses, polos and a logo sweatshirt and book bag from the school office. No fussy rules about colour of socks, shoes etc...or whether girls can wear shorts, and no uniform policing.

Do free uniforms improve school attendance, especially in pupils who don't own one at all? Someone ran a trial:

www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/impact-distributing-school-uniforms-childrens-education-kenya

keep the uniform! My daughter is a nightmare on choosing what to wear at weekends, can't imagine what she be like at school. She is so fashion concious (girls are worse) . I agree bullying could increase, not wearing the right shoes, school logo bags and imagine the designer clothed kids! It could more pressure on parents to buy the 'right' clothes for school.
Uniform looks smart and also identifies which school they go to.I also think it works out cheaper in the long run.

Interesting about the football shirt Maryz, I bet many schools would not allow football shirts to be worn even if no uniform. ds's school doesn't allow football to be played in the playground, it has to be in the special sports cage area, otherwise it a) takes over and b) becomes tribal. Apparently.

Well I am still not sure which side of the fence I sit but lots of things to think through here. Perhaps we just ask the question of parents and pupils, but if it's a very close vote one way or another we have then annoyed half the school by opening this can of worms...

keep the uniform! My daughter is a nightmare on choosing what to wear at weekends, can't imagine what she be like at school. She is so fashion concious (girls are worse) . I agree bullying could increase, not wearing the right shoes, school logo bags and imagine the designer clothed kids! It could more pressure on parents to buy the 'right' clothes for school.
Uniform looks smart and also identifies which school they go to.I also think it works out cheaper in the long run.

sorry posted it twice!

Another in favour of uniform. I went to a non uniform school and it was anightmare. it was all about labels and style and having the right clothes.

You should see dd's primary school on charity non uniform days. I insist on proper fitted shoes and trainers from Clarks and Start-Rite - her friends want designer makes. The girls wear tiny shorts and inappropriate shoes.

The independent high school they will hopefully go to has a very strict uniform but it is a fitted business style suit with no tie for girls. It's lovely. I could do without the financial pressure of expensive designer brands (there is a brand I can;t remember where even knockers are designer and cost a bomb its annoying me now I can't think of it - its a mans name not Fred Perry but something similar sounding.

keep the uniform as it is much easier for the pocket and less hassle at home 'choosing' clothes for the day and is of course, a great leveller

I think that unisform for secondary is sensible but primary kids should be able to wear nice, comfy clothes in styles they like.

I'm a big fan of school uniform. It makes getting the children ready in the morning so much eaiser as there are no decisions about what to wear.

I don't find cost a problem. 5 polo shirts, 4 pairs of trousers and three jumpers cost me about £15 from ASDA last year!!

I live in a country with no tradition of school uniforms - Germany - and it's great. I've never noticed a problem with 'label pressure' among the kids, and we get most of our clothes from C+A (yup, we still have those) and H+M, frequently second hand or hand-me-downs. It's definitely cheaper than having to get separate clothes that are only available for school.

Both my DD2's junior school and DD1's grammar school have a sort of school clothing which is entirely voluntary - t-shirts and hoodies with the school logo on. At special events we're asked to send the kids in with this clothing if possible, but no hassle if that doesn't happen.

I've never noticed any problem with lack of school identity or belonging, or with bad behaviour due to lack of uniform. My junior school in the UK had no uniform and it was very highly regarded. To be honest, if a school has to rely on some dodgy uncomfortable clothing to instil values, I'd seriously wonder about their competence and management in general. I want my children to learn important values - looking after others, being a good person, the value of hard work, a mature attitude - not being obsessed with all looking identical.

Most of the kids at school in Germany wear jeans and a casual top (t-shirt etc) - it's comfortable, practical in winter (nice and warm with tights underneath), and most importantly, clothing simply isn't an issue they fuss about. Unlike with uniformed schools, where there are constant battles with teenagers and parents about why it's somehow unsuitable to wear an expensive jumper that doesn't have a school logo or some other trite rubbish. And strangely, girls in the UK are far more obsessed with short skirts and looking 'tarty' than in Germany, presumably because in the UK many schools insist on them wearing skirts only, no trousers (so all they can do in a desperate bid for a bit of individuality is pull them up a bit).

And the majority of uniforms are made from this foul, nasty uncomfortable nylon material. Yuk, the trousers - how can anyone call that smart? And the colours!

So, IMO, school uniforms do seem to be rather infantile, pointless, and anachronistic. I think people are clinging onto them for the same reason that the AV vote didn't work - it's always been that way, and the fear of change and the unknown is just too powerful for many.

"I grew up in a country with no school uniform and I wouldn't say bullying was any worse for that. Having said that, I do quite like a cheap uniform as it saves money and tends to wear better than most other children's clothes"

Excactly what I was going to say. Grew up in Germany with no school uniform but spent a lot more time buying/choosing clothes, deciding what to wear etc especially at secondary level. School uniforms here are relatively cheap, very hard wearing and make school life much easier imo.

So, having experienced both systems, I'd say YES to school uniforms.

Uniform is cheaper and easier than own clothes if you can get supermarket stuff.

DS2 is in pre-school where they have a sweatshirt they can opt to wear. He wants to wear polo shirts underneath like his big brother does for school, and I am happy to do this. I can buy the polo shirts for less than normal t-shirts and it also means he knows what to wear every day.

FWIW I went to a primary school with no unifrom and loved it. I'm not sure my Mum did though.

Agree - uniform is much cheaper and generally much harder wearing than fashion own clothes.

No uniform - horrid nylon compulsory jumpers purchased from school at inflated prices and impractical summer dresses that my daughter cannot climb/ride bike etc in. At my children's school it is compulsory to wear black shoes, which are £30-£40 a pop from clarkes, we are then forced to buy cheap shoes for out of school, therefore double the cost. School shoes for girls seem to consist of the same design of dolly shoes wherever you go, my daughter is outside most of the time in her reception class and she has knackered her expensive shoes within nanoseconds. My son's last pair of school shoes lost their soles due to football playing. Arguments about bullying or children not fitting in are irrelevant; children in uniform differentiate from each other by being competitive about bags, lunch boxes, etc. School uniform is not practical and is not any more cost effective than normal clothing (although the shirts/trousers themselves are cheap they need clothing and shoes for outside school so double the clothing needs). I hate it and want to be scandinavian.

Uniform, cheap and easy. Much less hassle!

Uniforms are definately cheaper and easier. I have had no hassle about what they wear or pressure to buy expensive non-school clothes for my youngest 3 DS.

With my eldest 3 (who never wore uniforms) there was often arguments about what they needed to wear for school. I also spent much more on clothes. I can't say I ever noticed a difference in behaviour or work levels of my DC or any of their friends. Mine are all well behaved and bright.

I do think looking back at school photographs uniforms do look smarter, and lots of parents like that. Personally I think a uniform is needed more for 11 to 16s than for younger DCs.

So many useful and interesting points, thank you!

Thinking about the cost point though - while uniform from supermarkets is ludicrously cheap, so are many of the non-uniform clothes from supermarkets. I bought ds 5 tshirts for £4 once, with the express intention of him wearing them for nursery. So perhaps cost isn't the issue, though of course that's not true if there is competition about labels etc.

Ok, so if your school asked you, as a parent, if you wanted uniform or not, and you didn't get your way by being in the majority, would this piss you off no end? Or would it be a bit

If my children were at a school without uniform which then decided to introduce it, I would probably look for another school if that were an option. That's how strongly I feel about it.

I don't get all these people saying there are massive arguments about what to wear each morning. Of all the things we find to have crises about in the morning ('what do you mean you need to have finished that maths homework, learned the poem off by heart and you have to take in 6 milk cartons for art and fresh fruit for everyone today?' clothes has never been an issue. My kids have been dressing themselves since they were 3 years old - I only intervene if they choose something massively inappropriate for the weather.

uniform maybe cheap at the moment to buy in the supermarket, but give it a year and this price like everything else will be far higher as everything increases with inflation. If £115 for a school uniform is ok then factor in the cost as a positive but if that is going to break the bank for some families then please put it down as a negative OP