Are the majority of classes in state schools as disruptive as the class on Jamie Oliver's Dream School?

[mummynoo]

After watching Jamie Oliver's dream school, I am wondering if all state school classes are as rude and disruptive as the class featured in this programme. Since my daughter is due to start infants school this September?

Can any teachers who might be reading this give me their opinion. Is it impossible to teach because the pupils are constantly talking over you?

Hello Dozer I'm a deeply unsmug person (proud of my kids but never smug, there have been difficult times). The intention in posting was to puncture some of Xenia's smuggery relating to how we should all be copying her chosen lifestyle. She seems to believe that no good can come of state school, only social and intellectual bankruptcy so these results prove her wrong. I'm new to MN but it's heartening to see how some people are generous with others good news and amusing to see how some can only be chippy (presumably the ultra competitive mums). I'm genuinely glad for all who got the results they wanted today - these exams are sometimes belittled: at the coal face they seem to me to be challenging and seriously hard work.

I didn't find you smug-you were just pointing out what I know from personal exerience-DCs can get excellent results from comprehensive schools.

Yellowstone is not being smug. She(presuming she, apologies if not...) is merely replying to Xenia's usual rants. Good for her, and good for her children.

I've done the same on several threads (DCs at same universities as Xenia's 'despite' state educated blah, blah, blah). To be honest I just can't be bothered any more.

However, as Yellowstones DCs are all at Oxford ( and state school educated), well I think she just might have the upper hand on this one...:)Bravo!

yellowstone you had better stand by your phone, your DH is probably trying to get through to tell you he beat Usain Bolt in the 100 metres.

No wait, it's you dog, he's discovered something that over turns string theory.

Sorry Yellowstone, I hadn't read the whole thread so missed the context. And didn't mean to detract from your DCs' achievements.

That was unnecessary, wordfactory.

And it comes over as bitter and spiteful.

wow! Where did that fountain of bile come from wf?

Congrats yellowstone!

My godson got 11 A* at GCSEs. Reasonable state school, committed educated parents, clever kid. Not impossible parameters for plenty of children

Thank you most people and thank you wordfactory I love bitter people because it means I must be doing better than them.

PS. DH won't be phoning because I chucked him out and the dog is not too clever because he got dropped on his head as a child.

The trouble is that, despite clever children doing well, getting into Oxbridge etc etc, it is still those with the connections who are getting the top jobs.....the difference is that some people are proud that they are, whereas others are appalled, i.e the depressing thing is that there is more than an element of truth in Xenia's posts. Doesn't make it right though.

But is it? I don't see that it is 'connections' any more (though I may be generalising from the particular and in the small world of law). Is there anecdotal evidence out there to suggest that nepotism is alive and well and ousting merit in situations where it manifestly shouldn't? It would be really interesting to know.

I've seen nepotism & contacts being utilised in the banking world a lot. IME if they are not up to the job they'll last 3 years maximum. What's interesting is that sometimes they'll then get another job through the same contacts at another investment bank only for the same process to happen again.

In the old days 'the old school tie' meant that an incompetent colleague could be shielded, protected & covered up for for many years. Not any longer.

I think there's an element of projection here. I have repeatedly said 94% of children go to state schools and they make up half the intake at the best universities. So therefore plenty do well in the leafy better comps (and a few make it good from the not so good ones). That isn't all that counts (if we're talking about success and like most people I regard good health and internal issues and ability to form good relationships etc as important too). I think if you chart the 6% private schoolers and the other 50% of university entrants from the state sector (many are from state grammars) you still see advantage in the private schoolers in terms of careers and thereafter.

In other words all the stats show it's worth paying but they also show that lots of state schoolers do fine. The fact we might have anecdotal evidence which supports a particular prejudice (private schoolers fail etc) is fairly irrelevant.

On the question of connections I've 3 children in their early 20s and I am fascinatied by how they and their peers get or don't get jobs. I have conversations almost every other day about or with them. There was also that BBC programe on how people get jobs. In plenty of jobs they just want th best graduates whoever they are connected to and the milkround is still strong and if you're the Oxford double first even if you're from where I'm from they are likely to want you as long as you dress properly and don't speak like a bus driver.

In some other jobs (journalistm is apparently one of the worst ) which don't recruit huge numbers of graduates through well thought out programmes, I think connections do help. If you get in through a connection (and some companies operate reverse neposim - they ask do you have a connection and if you do you're out on your ear before you start - great scheme -0 there are plenty of working class jobs where son got job with council, factory etc etc where father works too of course) and you're useless you will tend to lose your job these days. However getting the leg up can help. And you can pay £5k to get unpaid work experience in good places apparently.

Once you're in a job many many jobs require you to connect. It's why places like Linked In do well. It's why people join even some London clubs never mind women's business networking and the like. I don't often play that game as I can't be bothered and have enough work without it but it's a game that's worth playing. It holds up whole industries from the working class man made good who struts around the golf course feeling important because he has a company car to the corporate days at the opera. And people say it all the time I hear to my chidlren or their friends - you went to X schools? (not posh ones but known to be reasonably academcie) or ah you were at my univesrity or whatever. People look for connections to join themselves to others and those connections can equally be that you are the loan two state schoolers with the strong accents from Liverpool.

I make a point whenever I meet those with Geordie accents in a business context in mentioning where I am from. Children need to learn how these things matter. All good fun

Xenia what do you mean, 'projection'? I can't see its relevance here.

That was quite a long post which in substance says nothing much more than even you, with your anti state school predjudice, don't believe that nepotism is a significant tool of recruitment any more.

People always ask about the background of others: that's the age old way to open conversations and build a picture of the person you're dealing with, nothing too profound or meaningful in that.

The best graduates, whatever their background (or gender). Agreed.

I've seen nepotism at work in the banking world for sure. For example I have overheard many conversations along these lines: 'My son has recently completed an MBA from 'If you have the money you can get an qualification' college...do you have a job for him Frank?' etc. Contacts and nepotism still get people jobs but if the candidate isn't up to it they won't last.

Yellowstone - you and I agree entirely it seems on this issue.

In DH's industry, at his level it couldn't be more irrelevant which school you went to.

Connections ARE important however, but only those made on a professional basis within the industry.

Getting in is the hard part - you need good exam results for many things and I don't dispute that's not the key but in some areas as I mentioned you also need some way to get a foot in the door.

Projection - I just meant I was being ascribed views I don't have,. I'm working so I can't be bothered to read above but it was along the lines that I don't think children can do well from state schools which is not what I've ever said.

I don't think I got a first job through contacts. I had very minor not too relevant work experience but I very much doubt that made an iota of difference. Nor do I think my children have. I've known some who have a friend who has got a job as a new graduate and recommended one of their friends for it too who was looking for a job so I suppose in a sense that is connections via a friend. However in some industries contacts do help but that's not limited to those in private schools. As I say a job on the council can be fairly nepotistic, if that's a word and the Bribery Act might stop John Smith getting a job for his 16 year old on the bins in preference to a non relative.

Xenia, That's a brilliant way not to deal with awkward questions! ('I'm working so I can't be bothered to read above'). I'm likely to be just as busy as you (in that I'm really, really busy) but I do always read before I post in order to respond appropriately to what's been said rather than just repeating immutable views. I can't imagine why you would advocate the draconian line that mothers should (should, not can) go out to work to pay for school fees unless you believe there is overwhelming evidence that no good can come from state schools. It's called an implication and it was inescapable in what you said towards the start of the thread.

Projection is a different concept.

What's wrong with bus drivers' accents and why would someone with a 'bus driver's accent' be handicapped in getting a job? I don't understand.

Of course you understand. The greatest hindrance for people in many jobs is not actually being female or black or whatever at all. It's class. It's been shown time and again. Elecution lessons are perhaps the best investment a parent might make in a child.

I assume that this is a joke! You cannot be serious! Oh you really are quite entertaining.

Does the idea of a meritocracy worry you Xenia?

Yellowstone, I think we should just leave Xenia in her own little world.

She spouts such utter old fashioned claptrap usually sometimes. I really really hope she is joking or wishes just to wind posters up promote discussion. But I fear she is serious. Tis best just to leave her to it.

Nah - Xenia's just beig realistic.

In an ideal world, everyone would be judged entirely on merit.

In the real world, the privately schooled are stupidly over represented at RG unis, absurdly so at Oxbridge.

And as if that wasn't bad enough, despite the fact that the evidence shows that state schooled puils tend out get better grades at university, the privately schooled still go on to take a completely disproportionate amount of the jobs in politics, law, medicine, the media, finance, business.

Now unless we're saying that all those privately schooled people were simply cleverer or in some way had more merit than their state schooled counterparts, don't we have to conclude that there isn't really any proper meritocracy at play?

Xenia is not being realistic she is being narrow minded, a snob and narrow minded.

There are many many examples of people not going ot private school, "making it" in the professions.
I and DH have friends through work and neighbours etc who work in professions, law, medicine etc, they did not all go to private school.

Where do you get your figures from "privately schooled still go on to take a completely disproportionate amount of jobs..." You only have to look at the BBC, the vast majority of presenters have regional accents today-thank god! My Dh owns a media company and he talks like a farmer!

Read the information provided by the Sutton Trust and also Alan Milburn's report and views on social mobilty.

Then look up the university of Exeter's research on the disproportionate number of the privately schooled taking up subjects leading the highest paid employment.

I think it's very easy when one has 'made it' as you say, to be a tad self congratulatory and complacent.

It's the 'Ive done it, so can anyone,' syndrome.

The reality is far from that.

I do not have a syndrome, you know nothing about me, or what I do in life. From my own life experiences I would never say "Ive done it, so can anyone".

I said 'one' not 'you'.