Son punished for being bullied - again!!!

[Solo2]

I've posted before about DS1's (aged 9) struggles at school this year - loss of self-confidence, various medical/ health issues being investigated and being a the victim of bullying. Last term, DS1 was put in detention - the worst punishment given by the school - because he'd done what a bully had told him to do - out of fear.

Long story and various discussions with the school....but he's still being bullied and yesterday got a 'minus point' for something the bully had done and he hadn't even done! In fact, he'd begged the bully NOT to do it but DS1 AND the bully got minus points!

Under ordinary circumstances, as a parent, you'd contact the school and discuss the situation and expect some advice and support.

However, I daren't contact the school myself anymore. This is because of a side issue. In summary, I was worried about DS1's loss of confidence academically, especially in Maths. I'd heard that the children would be re-mixed into diffreent maths sets, following recent exam results.

I specifically asked if I could be contacted FIRST before these new sets were decided and if DS1 were to be put down a set - as expected - that I could be the one to explain this to him kindly and sensitively. He's had the first half of the yr being publicly humilated for 'failing' in tests in maths and being 'threatened' with being put down a set.

I was told (even got it in writing!) that yes, I would be the first to know and that I could come in and discuss the whole thing....But the night before the new sets were announced to the children, DS2 (DS1's twin) told me that this was to happen.

I was shocked as the school had confirmed that I could have some say in the setting and come in and chat and that I could tell my son. So I emailed the correct teacher and reminded them of that promise and asked for further reassurance that the school had NOT yet set the children.

I got an email back suggesting that I wasn't supporting the school if I didn't trust them to make these kinds of decisions themselves and that the children were going to be told tomorrow about their new sets. I was then told what sets mine would be in.

I had/ have no issue at all about the fact that both my sons have been demoted - as the group size will be smaller and a change of teacher will likely benefit them. I feel shocked though that the school went back on their agreement with me about discussing things with me first...

It gets worse....I got a phone call from the head to say he'd seen the exchange of emails and wasn't happy. We only had 2 mins to talk but the implication was that I should stay well out of all school decisions and not expect any involvement. He also was v v concerned that I'd been given info in advance of the children and teachers involved about the new sets and made me promise not to tell anyone at all....Yet hrs later, I learned that all the children now knew their new sets and teachers....

My sense is that the school feel I'm too often communicating with them and asking for some discussion about how to help DS1 instead of letting the school get on with things alone. So I feel powerless to raise the bullying issue again. It would mean inadvertently also letting them know that the school renegd on another agreement - that of promising not to sit DS1 next to the bully.

It will also look like I'm always complaining - but if i do nothing and this carries on, DS1 will end up yet again in detention for being the victim of bullying.

Last night, DS1 siad he knew the only solution was to kill himself. As you can imagine, I'm extremely worried even allowing for the fact that 9 yr olds can get melodramatic at times. I'm afraid to be labelled as an interfering parent and that this might have a subsequent effect on my children's progression through the school. I'm also afraid that by doing nothing, I'm letting my son down and he's becoming increasingly stressed.

How can I skillfully manage this situation to achieve the best end result??

your reference to ski-ing trips and foreign holdays - those things happen in State secondaries too It is not secondbest to be in State School if that is the alternative. It is just that, an alternative, unless you are ONLY concerned with facilities, exam results, networking. There are many more things to schools than just this.

It is possible to survive a school where there are 30 children in the class to one teacher and one TA.

Childrena at state schools are not automatically subject to physical bullying. Bullying of all sorts, happens in many schools, state and private. It is how school deals with it that matters.

"CUT THROUGH THE GORDIAN KNOT."

Wow, I haven't heard that one in a while!

"Move to an area where you like the state schools. Change your job, change your life. There are loads of different ways to solve problems."

Yeah, and they include addressing the issue directly with the bully and the bully's family. OP I bet you are not feeling too kindly toward the bully right now and you might be very surprised to hear what the bully's mum thinks about your son.

Solo 2 I have just caught up with this thread and see that the psychologist is paid for by you. I also realise that you have twin sons (have twins myself).
I can see from your original post that you are a thoughtful articulate person who likes to reason her way through problems rather than just react emotionally. That's good in one way but not so good in another way. I tend to do the same thing myself .. that is canvass opinion from trusted friends before I come to a decision.
However, YOU are the one who needs to make the decision if one needs to be made.
Maybe there is no decision at the moment that you can usefully arrive at. It could be better to watch and wait. While you are watching and waiting I would log every incident on paper. i would also keep everything quiet and do not tell any other parent, particularly any friends you have at the school. Friends have a way of gossiping and it can be very damaging to the children in the long run. Sorry to go on a bit. You have my sympathy and support.

What your DS said to the head is absolutely consistent with his Asperger traits, by the way, and those who termed it "appalling" should bear that in mind.

I totally missed the fact the child has AS.

Sorry.

I remember saying something similar to a music teacher at that age and she really told me off. I was so ashamed.

I am on the Autistic spectrum myself though!

By the way I didn't comment on what the child said, on this thread...was apologising for missing important information.

I read that the other twin had AS traits, and the unhappy child may or may not have ADHD... Which is why the remark was inappropriate.

Ds1 would say something like that. he knows the social rules for someone apologising to be to acknowledge that they have apologised, and tell them that all is now well.

He has NOT learned the more complex social rule of pretending that the higher statuse has done nothing wrong, and therefore cannot possibly be apologising, and therefore you don't respond.

He is nearly 8. He has ASD - but this IS a very very complex social rule, and one that should not be automatically expected of children.

It is a complex rule.

I remember the teacher in my case joking with the class that we shouldn't eat too many easter eggs over the holiday.

Her joke delivery was very odd - straight face, head lifted, eyes closed and a superior, wafting tone that we all recognised as 'time to laugh'.

However my comeback of 'that applies to you too!' was not received with hilarity, but with a 'I do not think that is funny/ I think that is very rude'.

I went and cried in the cloakroom for ages while my friend told me I wasn't a bad girl and she knew I didn't mean any harm.

I see now it was rude but at the time, she was being funny, so I thought I would be too. It wasn't meant to be cheeky at all - just to make her smile.

Why are your children still at this ghastly place?

Mumi I think its the other twin who has ASD not the one who made the remark

Ingrid, that's reminded me of many a time I've responded inappropriately to someone in authority; the only occasions I can bear to acknowledge, even to myself, happened at school, but sadly I'm sure there have been many throughout my adulthood .

I always knew there was something wrong with me, but didn't twig till about 2 years ago that I was very likely on the spectrum.

Even then everyone tried to tell me I wasn't, because I had amassed a great many coping strategies, many of which involve avoiding other people. But some of which seem vaguely effective, thankfully.

I know how you feel.

Oh! Sorry OP. I didn't think what your DS said was out of turn, but then I am on the spectrum too :)

OP, lots of good advice on here with getting objective advice on the bullying.

This head sounds a right little Hitler. I'd be straight onto the board of governors if I were you, setting out days/dates/times of your points, and being clear about what you want from them. You are paying twice - firstly to this overrated school, and also as a taxpayer you're funding a place at whatever state school is the other option. This isn't a state vs private debate, just saying you have a choice, and more power than you think.

That head teacher is saying hugely inappropriate and patronising things, not to mention belittling you/students, etc. The list goes on. You don't have to take it. It will be a a great example to your boys, imho, if you take appropriate action to deal with the bullying the head teacher is subjecting you to. He obviously thinks it's OK. If he had issues initially with staff telling you abou the setting process, etc before the students were told, he should have taken this up with the staff member/s concerned, NOT had a pop at you about it. He should have better communication and policies within the school if he doesn't want that to happen.

If I were you, as I said, I'd write to the governors with all my views and facts, and state what I wanted to see next for my child. Ask to see their behaviour policy. I know it's hard, but you've every right to do this. If you slope off to another school without even trying to resolve matters, then you're letting him and his bullying tactics win, and your DCs will be witnessing it all.

The school are not dealing with the issue itself, but with a symptom. You've tried meeting with the head, and it has achieved little.

Good luck, it's not you.

Lost internet access last night so couldn't reply but thanks for the feedback. DS1 is NOT the one with Asperger's traits BTW. That's DS2 who is extremely happy at the school. The head seems v old school - like recently when DS1 was extremely sick at school (the precursor to his recent medical investigations and to 10 days vomiting), he returned to class to pick up his stuff before coming home and the head- who was there teaching RE - said, "And WHY are you coming in late and in such a mess?" (DS1 had his shirt untucked and tie lose because of vomiting). DS 1 said, "Because I've been sick and am going home" (feeling v v ill at this point). The head retorted, "Oh, then I suppose THAT's why you're such a mess, boy?" DS1 then said, "Yes, THAT's why I'm such a mess" - I think with an 'edge' to his voice as he was feeling so sick and felt harassed and blamed.

It may be that the head now thinks he's just basically rude - which he isn't - and is looking out for any comment from him that may be thus motivated. I don't think DS1 had meant to be rude this time though. I think he was modelling what the form teacher had just said about the bullying - ie - "that's OK...don't worry" - and repeating it back to another adult.

Incidentally, DS1 had his wekly meeting yesterday but only with the Deputy Head this time, as his form teacher couldn't make the meeting. Unfortunately, the Deputy Head completely contradicted the form teacher's kind, understanding attitude. When DS1 told him how worried he was about the recent bullying and undeserved minus point, the Deputy Head said, "Well I think this was a well-deserved punishment for you because you LET X take your ball, didn't you and you shouldn't have" - ie, further punishment for not standing up to a bully....? or that's how one might perceive it....?

So what now? The main thing I suppose is that DS1 doesn't seem to be phased by this latest and so I don't want to hype it up with him but I guess I'm learning more and more about what we're dealing with if we buy into this.

I daren't go above the head of the Head as, IF I want my DCs to continue here, this would just crucify their chances of making it into the seniors. I'd rather see what comes of my meeting with the head myself - if I can ever get them to arrange this.

I know some reading this thread consider the situation to be absolutely clear and that we should just leave and I know it's difficult to form judgements based on a post here. I am of course writing in the midst of great anxiety and concern and I do feel I need to find out more information and that this is not just from DS1. Most of all I want to convey to the school that I'm worried about DS1 and need to feel that the school can support him. However, this view must be extremely frustrating for anyone reading and believing it's a clear cut case of - Get out of there.

God, he sounds like something out of the 1960s.

'Boy'? Does he have a cane as well?

Look Solo, from what you're writing it's clear to me that you need to vent about these absolutely unacceptable happenings but at the same time you are afraid of doing something IRL because it's like an argument with someone - you want to come off best, and because the school holds such power, you don't want to end up another victim rather than someone who won the battle against a ridiculous tyrant.

I see how you are feeling - while you dislike the situations that arise you are afraid of being seen to be 'rejected' by a powerful institution that 'wanted' you (or your boys). They seem to have such a grip on your imagination that you daren't defy them, because you will then be left vulnerable and without the security that being wanted by them affords you.

At the moment YOU are in the position of power. If you reject your boys' places, you will no longer be welcome, no longer have that power and instead they will and you are worried you will regret it.

My feeling is they are aware of this and are playing on it. Whioch makes them a bunch of old fashioned bullies and you the willing victim.

They're manipulating you and you're falling for it. There is no way you can win against them, you need to give it up and walk away. They sound like absolute sods and worse, no good at their job.

In fact if you choose to walk I bet a load of parents will rate you and will follow.

Worth a try. You certainly won't get any power by staying. You're onto a loser if you stay.

HTH a bit x

I am projecting btw, guessing...having been on the peripheries of a private school scenario for my eldest, I fully understand that magic feeling of being 'wanted' by a prestigious establishment.

I'm still tempted at times to take up their offer for ds, even though he doesn't want to board, just because he'll then be somehow lifted up a level with all the lovely benefits that bestows.

However we resisted. That's because I managed to keep half a grip on reality and still see through the handshakes and winks and 'we have no bullying' and the massive grounds of the school, and I see that they are very fake people and their institution is built a bit like the emperor's new clothes - on the social cache of going there, nothing more. People will pay for the name.

It's balderdash really. It's no better than anywhere else but because they pretend to be and the parents sustain this illusion by believing in it, they get away with it.

And it was a far nicer school than yours by the sound of it! You're playing right into their greedy little hands.

And we had a scholarship!!!

Really hard to resist that one!

Sorry to go on...I think you're afraid they'll turn round and say 'well, go on then, we never wanted you in the first place!' if you leave.

It's like the 'someone on the internet is wrong' thing. You feel the need to not be the rejected party. And they are cleverly making you feel that it will be your loss if you reject them.

Very clever stuff. It's bollocks, of course.

Hi Solo - I posted on a previous thread where people were telling you that you must change schools and felt I really wanted to support you in your decision not to move them (with all the difficulties that would entail). I had particular empathy for your situation as I have (younger) twin boys myself.

Now though looking at your thread I do think you need make a decision about whether you are going to stick with it and accept their way of doing things or whether you are going to move your boys.

This is horrible but I don't think you are going to get the head to have different attitudes or behave differently, even if you go to the Governors. You clearly don't have faith in the school and the way it treats your son, and he will be picking up on this too, even if you are trying hard not to come across that way.

If it were me I would write a list of pros and cons of the school. I'd then look at the cons and work out which of them I thought I could realistically change/improve and which ones I couldn't. Out of the cons that you can't change are there any dealbreakers, any that you think will affect your children's happiness and confidence going forward? If so, perhaps you do need to make that change. If you are not going to change schools you need to come up with a plan of action for the things you can change, and you need to let go the things you can't (or come up with ways to compensate for them).

As other posters have said you are trying your very, very best to do the best for both your both in difficult circumstances, so I think you need to be able to cut through the fog of difficulties and see what you actually can do.

It's easy to see where the bullying comes from in this school. Top down, from the head. It sounds like a very, very unpleasant place for your son to be. Leave your other son who is thriving there, but FGS don't leave your 9 year old there.

What Provincial Lady said. Again, I reiterate, you and your boys are being subjected to bullying tactics in this school.

I don't think you should leave at all, not sure if I made my support for this side of it clear. I think you're doing totally the right thing for the time being in questioning bullying behaviour for you AND DS1. If you change your mind later on then that's a different matter. Get some input on bullying behaviour from Kidscape or similar (they might help you compose your letter), and then go to the governors in writing. Write to more than one of them - out the bullies. This school clearly thinks it's OK to be rude, overfamiliar, patronising, disrespectful, etc. The pupils may only be doing it because the head and deputy are bad examples.

Blow the whistle.

I honestly do not feel, from what you have posted, that your DS1 will ever be happy at that school. It does not sound like a happy or reasonable place.

I would look to move him as soon as possible so that he can get back to being a happy child. You can even home education for a term or two if a place is not immediately availbale locally. We did not move our DS as quickly as we should have and it took a long time for him to get back to being the happy confident child he had been previously.

I do hope your DS1 can regain his confidence (and a happy school life) soon.

YY the most recent posters are dead right to have spotted that the bullying comes from the top down and that you are being bullied too.

If you are determined to educate both sons privately, there MUST be other private schools locally? I don't know anywhere in the country that only has one in a radius of 20 miles.