Son punished for being bullied - again!!!

[Solo2]

I've posted before about DS1's (aged 9) struggles at school this year - loss of self-confidence, various medical/ health issues being investigated and being a the victim of bullying. Last term, DS1 was put in detention - the worst punishment given by the school - because he'd done what a bully had told him to do - out of fear.

Long story and various discussions with the school....but he's still being bullied and yesterday got a 'minus point' for something the bully had done and he hadn't even done! In fact, he'd begged the bully NOT to do it but DS1 AND the bully got minus points!

Under ordinary circumstances, as a parent, you'd contact the school and discuss the situation and expect some advice and support.

However, I daren't contact the school myself anymore. This is because of a side issue. In summary, I was worried about DS1's loss of confidence academically, especially in Maths. I'd heard that the children would be re-mixed into diffreent maths sets, following recent exam results.

I specifically asked if I could be contacted FIRST before these new sets were decided and if DS1 were to be put down a set - as expected - that I could be the one to explain this to him kindly and sensitively. He's had the first half of the yr being publicly humilated for 'failing' in tests in maths and being 'threatened' with being put down a set.

I was told (even got it in writing!) that yes, I would be the first to know and that I could come in and discuss the whole thing....But the night before the new sets were announced to the children, DS2 (DS1's twin) told me that this was to happen.

I was shocked as the school had confirmed that I could have some say in the setting and come in and chat and that I could tell my son. So I emailed the correct teacher and reminded them of that promise and asked for further reassurance that the school had NOT yet set the children.

I got an email back suggesting that I wasn't supporting the school if I didn't trust them to make these kinds of decisions themselves and that the children were going to be told tomorrow about their new sets. I was then told what sets mine would be in.

I had/ have no issue at all about the fact that both my sons have been demoted - as the group size will be smaller and a change of teacher will likely benefit them. I feel shocked though that the school went back on their agreement with me about discussing things with me first...

It gets worse....I got a phone call from the head to say he'd seen the exchange of emails and wasn't happy. We only had 2 mins to talk but the implication was that I should stay well out of all school decisions and not expect any involvement. He also was v v concerned that I'd been given info in advance of the children and teachers involved about the new sets and made me promise not to tell anyone at all....Yet hrs later, I learned that all the children now knew their new sets and teachers....

My sense is that the school feel I'm too often communicating with them and asking for some discussion about how to help DS1 instead of letting the school get on with things alone. So I feel powerless to raise the bullying issue again. It would mean inadvertently also letting them know that the school renegd on another agreement - that of promising not to sit DS1 next to the bully.

It will also look like I'm always complaining - but if i do nothing and this carries on, DS1 will end up yet again in detention for being the victim of bullying.

Last night, DS1 siad he knew the only solution was to kill himself. As you can imagine, I'm extremely worried even allowing for the fact that 9 yr olds can get melodramatic at times. I'm afraid to be labelled as an interfering parent and that this might have a subsequent effect on my children's progression through the school. I'm also afraid that by doing nothing, I'm letting my son down and he's becoming increasingly stressed.

How can I skillfully manage this situation to achieve the best end result??

OMG! DS1 has just told me that in the lesson he had today which is taught by the headmaster, the head came in late and apologised and DS1 said in a kindly way, "That's OK. Don't worry about it" and the head answered in a very angry voice, "Boy! That's NO way to talk to a teacher!"

I assume the head thought DS1 was being overfamiliar or could it be because of the school's anger with me that the head is taking it out on DS1? I'm probably being paranoid tonight but after everything that's happened, I seriously worry if a kindly remark from a child aged 9 is interpreted as rudeness and reprimanded!

I wonder if there's more going on than just our own situation that is making the school and staff v tense? There are so many worried parents recently each with gripes about the school that maybe we're just one family of many who are struggling to accept things as they are now?

I can only speculate. In the DCs previous school, I found I was often feeling really really happy with the school and staff and in the current school, I find I'm more and more disquieted by things and there almost seems to be something more each week.

Is it a private school?

It stinks. I would get them out of there quicker than Concorde if they were mine.

What more needs to happen for you to take control of this situation and move your son?

This sounds horrendous!

This school is obviuosly very good at the hype and has everyone believing it, but from the sounds of it your DS would be much better out of their.

Are the other local schools all full?

If something doesn't feel right, as you say inyour post, it's usually for good reason.

Who is paying the psychologist? Has she got a vested interest in keeping you at that school?
You are paying good money for this remember.
I'd want a bit more for my "dollar" than you are getting at present.
You've got to be more firm, both with yourself and with the school. Don't let them take you for a mug!
You have my sympathy. It's hard for you I'm sure. Be brave.

Loads of people have issues with the school. Just because it used to be good doesn't mean it still is.

Vote with your feet and walk or nothing will change.

"That's OK. Don't worry about it" and the head answered in a very angry voice, "Boy! That's NO way to talk to a teacher!"

HT was right, it's not an appropriate way to speak to an adult in authority.

It sounds like you're paying a lot of money for a service which is not satisfactory to you. Is there something wrong with the state sector where you live?

I don't get it: a head teacher and form teacher who 'don't have the social skills" to help a pupil - WTF? Loads of NQT teachers? Plus all the other issues you are dealing with?

Why does this school have such a great reputation? Why are you still there? If the set up is this dire, how are your other dc's getting value for money? Is it simply best of bad bunch? Is there no state option?

Can I just reiterate that all this is my subjective experience of this school at present. DS2 - DS1s twin - is v happy there. He's got Asperger's traits, is incredibly well-behaved and quiet at school, doing very well indeed academically and has 3 close friends all of whom are v geeky and well-behaved and quiet. He can work unaided and has excellent concentration span. He's in the G & T group for English. His work presentation is neat and legible. For children like this, I think this school fits well.

Yes, this is a fee paying school with an excellent Ofsted report and one of the top academic fee-paying co-ed schools in the UK. Whilst local state schools are OK, they're just not at all in the same league as this one and have obviously got even larger class sizes and far fewer facilities.

Back to DS1 - DS1 is the more 'normal' or neurotypical one of my twins. He has attentional and concetration difficulties and all his life - till this year, has been much more sociable and extrovert that DS2. He has good social skills and, until this year, was by far the more confident one socially. This made up - somewhat - for the fact that he didn't achieve his full potential academically, as his self esteem was also bound up in having loads of friends.

This year, he's suddenly felt friendless and has no special friend at all in his class. Isolated and vulnerable for a variety of reasons (is undergoing medical investigations and having time off school) , he's been prey to the influence of a known bully who has spotted DS1's vulnerability and loneliness and homed in. The head of pastoral care - possibly the best teacher in the school (again my subjective view) has been on long term sick, so the situation with DS1 has been 'handled' by those perhaps whose skills lie elsewhere.

Incidentally, the psych. DS1 saw had had a son go through the upper school some time ago - that was her experience of it and she hasn't got an investment in us staying there - only realises that as it's a school in the top 100 league and the best by far, locally, most people would be reluctant to leave once they get in. I am paying her privately to see DS1. The school wouldn't offer anything like that at all.

I'm posting on MN to try to get some perspective and the feedback that perhaps the head wasn't being nasty to retort to DS1's kindly meant remark helps me to see that yes, perhaps my son's comment could be perceived as on the edge somewhat.

Meanwhile, I'm still unhappy about things and am waiting to see how it all pans out. DS1 should be having his weekly meeting today with the 2 staff members and hopefully would have talked more about being bullied and blamed.

I think I'm beginning to perceive the school more clearly as time goes on and see that it's far more like my brothers's old grammar school - wheer you had to sink or swim - than my own 'softer' school. I think I hadn't fully realised that before. I think also that my DCs are experiencing the school in a time of great change and flux.

I'm unhappy but not yet certain what the best course of action is and therefore concentrating on trying to resolve one situation at a time. I'm much happier that from yesterday, the large maths sets have been spread into another group and so now DCs have one teacher to only 19 children rather than their previous one of 26.

I will keep watching the bullying situation closely. As I've posted before, another parent has also had a difficult situation in the same year group with her son and his friends drafted in constantly to defend a different child being bullied and this friend did not find the head's response satisfactory. So I think that my experience with the bullying is not wholly a one-off or subjective.

Why are we still with this school? For all the positives I suppose - the fact that it was an enormous thing to get both my twins into the school....the fact that a huge cohort of their pre-prep friends also go there...the fact that it has the best by far Ofsted reports...the fact that it feeds into the senior part that is much harder to get into if you're not already part of the system....the fact that several people recommende it as the school of choice and my DCs excellent ex-headmistress of their pre-prep told me that it was the right school for my DCs....

I hope to find a way through the difficulties and am feeling my way at the moment. I'm not sure to what extent DS1's medical issues are influencing his perception of life at present and interacting with the school factors. I'm waiting for the pastoral care teacher to retunr full-time and hoping for a more productive talk with her. I think she could be KEY to making a difference with DS1....

Sorry but you're totally back-tracking now; you sound like you've scared yourself by raising the unthinkable possibility of moving your child from the 'best' school in the area, and you're talking yourself round to their way of thinking.

A school is only as good as an individual child experiences it, and what other people think should have no bearing on your own child's well-being.

Good luck to you and especially good luck to your poor boy.

As far as I can see:
Your son is unhappy at school, to the point of talking about suicide
You are paying an extoritionate amount of money for this
The school suits your other son, so there is nothing inherently wrong with it
The only reason you won't move your unhappy child is because the other alternative is a state school
Your son likes to have a large peer group and state schools have large classes

Ok, I don't know the whole story but I have a feeling you need to get over yourself and put your son in the right school for him not the one that looks best for you

There was another thread not so long ago I think, where the OP's son of the same age had an outburst that he wanted to kill himself.
If anyone could find it, it might be useful for the OP to read.

You need to separate the statistics from the reality for your DS2. This school is higher in the league tables, it is nice to be able to tell people that your sons go there and to bask in reflected glory. But if the day to day reality for your son is that e is unhappy, he needs to move. He won't achieve his potential if it is the wrong school for him, regardless of the glittering results and social confidence of the children around him.

But I wouldn't set too much store by the suicide thing. My DS2 says this regularly. He is happy, confident, settled, has had the same friends since yr 2, no issues. He told me last night that he wanted to die, because one of his friends had been annoying him. It was attention-seeking, he has said it lots. He was fine an hour later, and fine this morning as he went to school.

Solo, I think you need to consider the last three posts very carefully - they raise important points.

Also would advise you to get in touch with Kidscape, the anti-bullying charity. They are experts on this and will be able to advise you what the should should be doing and all the right jargon to use.

Finally, I have been the child who is bullied at school and who the teachers won't help. It was MISERABLE. I am not surprised your son is talking about killing himself. You need to protect him. If he sees you failing to act, it will reinforce the message that he is worthless and has no hope. And he may well stop talking about it and start behaving in a self-destructive manner.

Sod the schools' reputation, this is about your son's safety and welfare.

Yes, I think the suicide thing was more a melodramatic moment. No one need doubt that I have my son's best interests at heart. It really doesn't feel as simple as some are suggesting. DS1 LOVES some aspects of the school nad on the whole loved most aspects of the school until this particular year. I think it would destroy his confidence utterly if I took him away but let DS2 stay. He'd far preefer smaller classes than an even larger peer group BTW.

No I'm not back-tracking. I'm trying to look at all angles and find the best, considered solution and not jump to conclusions. Might Ds1 be even more unhappy elsewhere? Might DS1 be bullied with physical violence elsewhere as well as verbal coercion? Might other schools have even worse pastoral care? Might DS1 lose all interest in a different kind of school? If DS2 gest the chance to go on the school trips - outward bound/ foreign hols and skiing etc etc and DS1 doesn't get that chance in another school - won't he be jealous lifelong?

Then yes the other side of it is - will DS1 be damaged for life if he significantly loses self esteem for the whole of Yr 5? Will DS1 lose faith in adult protection and authority if he is berated and/ or punished for unfair reasons? Would DS1 be better completely away from his twin with whom he's been lifelong so far - in a different educational 'culture' and peer group?

Is it best to support my son through a difficutl time and show him that there might be ways of emerging stronger from such challenges - or - is it best to model 'sensible and rapid escape' in these situations?

I don't yet know what the right thing is to do. Some days he comes out happy. Some days he comes out miserable? Some days he wishes he didn't have to do any homework ever or any work at all. Some days he wants to know what he can do in terms of improving his work in order to become an equine vet. Some days he's been coerced and influenced by the bully. Some days he doesn't even see him to speak to. Some days I find the school immensely unhelpful and irritating. Some days I find it helpful and supportive. The latter ahs bene less true recently of course. I don't believe in rushing into decisions and I always like to wait until my emotions have calmed down before considering the best course of action.

None of the positives you quote about the school mean anything if it is making your DS suicidal.

I would say that if the school says you're not supporting it, you need to point out the school that it's not supporting you OR DS, but I think it's past that point and you need to get him out of there.

If they are treating one child who is being bullied as badly as it sounds, then for all their small class sizes and prestigious reputation, they are not a nice school and you should take both kids out - no matter that their rubbish atttitude hasn't happened to have an impact on the not-bullied child.

"I assume the head thought DS1 was being overfamiliar or could it be because of the school's anger with me that the head is taking it out on DS1? I'm probably being paranoid tonight but after everything that's happened, I seriously worry if a kindly remark from a child aged 9 is interpreted as rudeness and reprimanded!"

!!!! Your son's comment was absolutely appalling !!!! Clearly he would be better off outside the private system in a state school where ill discipline is accepted.

I cannot believe you are paying to put your son through this.

The comment your DS made to the HT was inappropriate, no question.

But for the rest? You honestly sound as if you care more for the prestige of having got your sons into this school than you do for your DS1's happiness and well-being.

You are proud of your DS1 for going and speaking to his teacher and standing up for himself, but you should be doing that on his behalf, and you aren't - you have essentially admitted on this thread that you are too chicken to do it for fear of being 'labelled'.

Now I can understand that you don't want to disrupt your other son who is happy and thriving, but if your DS's are so different, then perhaps they need to be in different schools?
I don't believe there are no other options. There might not be an option that is as socially acceptable to you, but that is a different matter from your son's education.

tbh your description of your son day to day coming out of school, complaining, cheerful, sometimes workshy, sometimes enthusiastic, sounds normal to me for a 9-10 year old. Not totally miserable and completely stressed, but just badtempered and complaining. Pay attention Mum is what he's saying, my 8-11 year olds behave like that all the time. Maybe that is a reflection my dcs's state school, or my parenting, who knows...but from conversations with friends, this is quite normal, the getting into scrapes, up and downness of it all.
And the I want to die is in our melodramatic household "normal" too. Because they are 9 not teenage and they don't use words with much sophistication. I hate you, I want to kill you...
is it just me, or are those quite common 8-11 year phrases in the bosom of the family.

I think you are feeling overwhelmed by looking after two 9 year olds, singlehandedly. Who wouldn't? I am overwhelmed every day dealing with my children's emotional demands, school work, and I'm not holding down a demanding job as you clearly are.
Either you essentially believe in the school, in which case trust them. Or if you don't GET HIM OUT. They can't solve all these problems for you, if these problems are real. I really don't see that there is no other solution. As you said you intend to send him to the secondary part of school this could drag on for years.
CUT THROUGH THE GORDIAN KNOT. Move to an area where you like the state schools. Change your job, change your life. There are loads of different ways to solve problems.

Regarding the thought that the OP's ds may simply be exagerating or dramatising when he says he wants to kill himself - I was bullied throughout my 5 years at secondary school, and by my mid-teens, I was thinking about suicide a lot.

I differed from your ds in that I didn't tell my mother - I had tried to tell her about the bullying when it started, and she told me that 'sticks and stones might hurt my bones, but calling names wouldn't hurt me' and I should just ignore them - and I felt that was her last word on the matter, so never dared go back to her as things got worse, and I felt more and more insignificant and desperate. I didn't tell the school either, because I was afraid of facing the backlash that I thought was inevitable, and didn't think mum would back me up if I did this.

Last year, I finally told my mum how desperate I had felt at school, and how I had felt suicidal, and she was horrified - she had assumed that it had stopped, because I didn't mention it again, and would have acted very differently if she had known how bad things had got.

I am still suffering from the depression that I believe started with the bullying.

OP - your son has a wonderful advocate and defender in you, and I am sure that you will sort this out the best way for him. You should be proud of yourself.