Does anyone REALLY send their children to private school?

[Mosschops30]

Message withdrawn

independent schools do often use unqualified teachers in sports coaching..they get talented young people who excel in sport during gap years

The private school my two went to was genuinely comprehensive in that it took "families' whatever the level of ability. It took a lot of army children with parents posted overseas, and loads of kids from Hong Kong.

p

a

Some private schools specialise in children with special needs, and they are mostly funded, on an individual basis by local authorities. This is not in general because of cost (these schools are very expensive) but because the need of the child is such that very few mainstream, or even special schools have the neccessary skills, equipment, staffing ratios etc. Many are boarding schools, and although some are charitable, some are profit making. I don't see that as a particular problem, but I imagine that the parents and children might prefer a more local option (although I think secluded country locations can help some children with severe emotional and behavioural problems).

I think it is probably not very helpful looking at individual schools to make a comparison across the board state vs private, as the whole range is provided in both state and private, with probably a wider range on the private side (from the very selective academic schools, those with special interests, like dance or drama schools, those with particular educational beliefs, like the Steiner schools, and those for children with educational and other special needs).

State schools employ qualified teachers, they will not take on a teacher in charge of a class unless that teacher is either qualified or going through the qualification process. They will also not take on a teacher unless they have been checked out by the CRB.

Private schools will and do take on teachers that have no teaching qualifications, that are not doing any teaching qualifications and that do not have any teaching experience. They do not have to have their staff checked by the CRB as the schools are not within the public sector. It is recommended, but many schools are still 'implementing' the process, whatever that means!

Some of you seem to presume that I know all about St Pauls, I found the quote on the Net, I am not very well educated in the status of private schools and didn't have a clue who or what St Paul's was, thank you for educating me.

No, Ofsted may fail on lots of things, but no system set up like this to handle all the state schools in the country is going to be perfect! The point is that at least there is some kind of system, whatever it's failings.

But this is not intended to be a private school bashing. Many private schools charge per year our annual in-take, so I could never afford to put either of my children in a private school. Neither of them are showing particular braininess so a scholarship is out of the question (plus I wouldn't like to put that kind of pressure upon my child). So I lived in London for example, I would be that mother who was forced to take her children to the nearest school that had any places.

My point is and always will be, that it is unfair that some mothers who just want the very best for the children, are being denied any choice as regards education. To some parents, there is no choice, they have to make do.

Not saying that there is much any one person can do about it, not slating off mothers here who do send their kids private, just thinking aloud about how shit life is sometimes. Thinking about how I would feel, might feel soon, having to send my child to a shitty school with a bad reputation because I have no other choice.

rhubarb

I don't think anyone will disagree with that...there shouldn't be any difference and thats just not fair, regardless of whether teh tteachers at ind schoosl are qualified or not, or how much money they make, or whether they're inlcusive or not!!!

I completely agree that everyone should have a high-quality, free and ideally non-religious state school which is easily accessible but we don't and this is not the fault of private schools whatever you think of them. Depending on where you live your nearest state school might be a faith school, a specialist sports college, a city academy or even a grammar school (I notice you don't mention these Rhubarb even though they still exist and are as selective as private schools though state-funded) so there isn't a straightforward choice between state or private. A point nobody has made is that bad schools are often bad because of their intake (because they are in a deprived area). There isn't much the school can do about this it's a much wider social problem I also agree with Princesspea that it's rather disengenous to complain that private schools are selective. That is precisely the point of most of them and that's why I want my daughter to go to one. I don't want her to be taught in mixed-ability classes because I don't think she will be challenged or supported adequately in them. Perhaps there's a debate to be had about mixed ability teaching but that's for another thread. Also isn't the govt talking about making all schools independent at the moment? Seems like the problem is not the private schools but the govt!!

Religious schools such as catholic schools will take on other children of other faiths if they have places, they do not charge. Grammar schools are few, and are selective based on the child's intellect, but do not charge.

I know. I thought you had a problem with selection and as I said grammar schools do still exist (not as rare as you might think) and select from the 11+ the most able students from a whole LEA yet are entirely funded by the state. Faith schools may be supposed to accept students from other faiths but don't some request a letter from the local vicar?? And, in practice, it's highly unlikely you would go to your local Catholic, C of E or Jewish school regardless of how good it was if you were a muslim for example!! As atheists I feel my children are excluded from faith schools just as if they had failed the entrance exam and I would rather send them to private school than a faith school although I appreciate not everyone feels like this and many parents go through years of hypocritical churchgoing as illustrated in this thread.

It's all about choices. Some people have said that they have no choice but to put their kids into a private schools because of the shortage of places and so on, but this is a choice because not everyone can afford a private school. You can choose not to send your child to a catholic school because you are an atheist, it's still a choice. Having a school completely excluded from you because of your income is different.

I should add that the enquiry into the recent riots in the north west where I live and teach blamed the faith schools for creating/ exacerbating social divisions which led to these. Because of faith schools some students had never mixed with children of different religions and colours. So, you see, getting children to mix and avoiding social divisions is a problem in the state sector anyway. And even without those there would still be good schools and bad schools because of variations in catchments.

No, I don't see a Catholic or other faith school as a choice at all. Don't underestimate how important people's faith or lack of it is!! And, if my children fail their 11+ and don't get into the state-run grammar school that's not a choice either.

It's important not to conflate the evils of private schools with the problems of the state system. The state system does have its problems and it's not just the fact that x parent can't get their child into a good school. Why are there bad schools at all and what can be done to improve them or their intake?? Why don't we get rid of faith schools? Why do some state schools select and some not? Why do grammar schools still exist etc etc You might not like the fact that private schools exist but there's nothing you or I can do about them. Perhaps we should focus on what can be done about state schools instead. Night, night.

Actually there is a choice that you have not yet mentioned Rhubarb and it is a choice that I have seriously considered which is home educating. If for any reason I find myself unable to pay school fees (and as you can see from my previous posts paying the fees will leave us with less to live on than probably most families on state benefits) I will keep my children at home rather than subject them to the state education system.

its not a choice for all - same as private ed isnt a choice for all. i cannot afford not to work which kinda negates the idea for us

there are not the same range of choices for anyone in any aspect of life because incomes vary and at some level everything has a cost.

some state schools are excellent because their catchment area is exclusive due to the housing market in that area, that is also selection by income..conversely some are poor because of the deprived nature of the catchment area and there probably aren't private schools in those areas either..there is more choice of private schools in affluent areas too, as well as more choice of shops, health facilities, playgroups, cinemas and coffee bars, and employment

I agree that faith schools should be scrapped as they have been in France. Nor can you wear any religious symbol that might set you apart from your fellow pupils. That bit is controversial, especially for the devout Muslims, but I can see where they are coming from. In Britian now it is too far the other way, where the taxpayer is paying for the upkeep of exclusive Muslim schools. They should keep religion at home and education in the schools.

But Rhiann, it is still your choice not to let your child attend a faith school, whether it be catholic or not. A lot of state schools are affiliated to the Protestant religion are they not? So your child will be taught about God at some point. You choose not to send your child to a catholic school because of your religious stance. However, even if I wanted to send mine to a private school, I wouldn't even get past the door. And that is the situation many mothers find themselves in. I don't personally think it is right to say "well that's life, you can't do anything about that", if everyone thought like that we would never make any changes, we would never get ahead. Yes we can petition for more money to be ploughed into state schools, but we can also petition for equality in everything, from health to travel to schooling.

Why should I accept that someone who earns twice as much as me, can get the best health treatment, can skip waiting lists, can send their children to the best schools, etc. What makes them better people than me? When I was in Preston I couldn't even get a dentist for my family as there were no NHS dentists in that area, I would have had to pay private, and we simply couldn't afford it! So my children would never have been able to have dental check-ups or get the treatment they needed. That is outrageous and scandalous imo!

Don't see why I should just sit back and accept this as 'life'.

Rhubarb, I agree that the NHS dentist situation is shockingly poor. However, in this country, although we continually complain about the NHS, we are extremely lucky to have such a system. In terms of medical care, it actually doesn't follow that you need to pay private to get the best care. Granted, waiting lists can be long but we don't have to pay (again) for the best emergency care. It's nowhere near as good as it could be but it's a lot better than they have in the U.S!

Also agree completely with Zippi, that many parents are in effect paying by virtue of the 20% hike in their property prices to be in a particular catchment area. She's also right to say that some people will always have more choice and this isn't just based on their income. For instance, one 18yr old may want to go to Oxford but not have the grades. Is it right for her to say, 'well so and so shouldn't have that choice just because she's cleverer than me'?

Now you are losing the whole point of the term 'choice'. If Rhiann was not particularly bothered what religious education her child received, then she could put them into any faith school as well as looking into the state schools, that's a choice.
If your child is not bright enough to get into Oxford, that's hard luck!
If my kids have to go to a underachieving and rough state school because we don't have the money to put them anywhere else, that's unfair.

And for the record, faith schools can be just as bad as state schools, I went to a catholic school which was the roughest in the district! I would have been better off in the local state.