Does anyone REALLY send their children to private school?

[Mosschops30]

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Custy - sorry I am a bit confused. For us it would be a choice to move, partly because DS could end up being one of the ones with no school place in the borough - fine if the place that is found is within easy travelling distace, not fine if it is an hours unreliable bus service away(which wouldn't imply choice at all).

Actually, some of the lambeth 2ndry schools are good, and getting better - and a new one will be built in Brixton within the next 5 years.

Lambeth is a long, thin straggly shaped borough, and has 5 other boroughs bordering it - so convenient schools can easily be just across the border.

RE thew Observer article: I was a bit confused by the pov of some of the parents there - One mother and son were talking about it being a problem that he didn't get into the Lambeth Academy, but 'had' to go to Dunraven instead. Dunraven is an excellent school (foundation, takes equal numbers of kids from each of 5 ability bands) and v v close for anyone attending Sudbourne.
Also Sudbourne Parents! The cheek of it! Don't know about those individuals, of course, but Sudbourne is absolutely colonised by people who have rented houses on the doorstep for a year (and then sublet them) in order to get in. Or have knocked on doors offering money for the use of an address - all documented! We would be in the natural Sudbourne catchment (we are 7 minutes walk away) if it wasn't for all that!
I think the other big problem with admissions and lack of offers is that the wonderful Capita are in charge of the system.

So, yes, there is a problem, and a big problem, but I don't think it is EXACTLY as described in the Observer. And here many are of Lambeth Councils making, rather than Blairs. (oooh, how it grates to have to suggest that!)

What about this in the Independent yesterday then?

We could be on our way back to a system where everyone has to make a financial contribution to their children's schooling, or find a company who will sponsor their place. I can see it now - uniforms of the future will be like footie shirts with 'Newtown Academy of Technology - SIEMENS' or ismilar.

Getting back to the original post Mosschops, don't feel in any way like you won't fit in at the private school or that people won't be like you. Its easy to make assumptions about people and I've read a few posts here referring to "not the usual barristers and accountants" which have made me laugh. DH is a barrister and I'm a solicitor and on paper we look like we'll feel right at home when ds1 starts private school next September. But the reality is we are both legal aid lawyers and you may have been reading in the papers lately about how well that pays! We do have more money than the average couple I'm not trying to say we don't but we aren't the stereotype that you might at first think. My friend has warned me about the "extras" as she is a teacher at a very posh girls school and she says the girls can be nightmares, all "we're off to New York for my 11th birthday and Daddy says I can bring 5 of my very best friends". There is no way either of my sons would be getting that even if we had the dosh because I find that sort of thing obscene tbh. We are saving up for an old VW camper van at the moment so I might well be picking them up in that on a Friday night. Won't that raise a few eyebrows

bosscat - agree with you completely. DD attends a central London private school (just entered reception), but that's because I'd be afraid to send her to any of the state schools around here, and we are not regular church goers.

I know she's getting a good education, but it's very much "how many houses do you have?" territory, and that is not how we live our lives. I'd love to find a different sort of atmosphere for her/me, but at this point, have chosen not to travel miles and miles to school everyday. I keep wondering if I've made the right choice.....

It is something I am not worrying about at all tbh. I am sure there will be people like that there but I would never mix with them as who cares how many houses you've got? I would never bring either one of my kids up like that so in turn I just won't feel bad if they come home and say "Oscar's dad's just bought him an X". I'd just say "well isn't that lovely now go and pack your bag we are going camping!" I find too that if you smile at people they usually smile back. There's a lady at my ds1's nursery who looks like a footballers wife, drives up in a brand new mercedes and never talks to anyone. I've smiled mercilessly at her for months now and she's finally caved in to my tyrade of friendliness!

Good for you bosscat with your persistance! There is one mum like that in particular whose daughter is in dd's class. She is driven to the school grounds in a shiny black top of the line Range Rover, and makes her way to the door for collection while her driver waits with the car. I always smile at her, with little response. But, on Friday, she {gasp!) even spoke to me! Not sure if the ice queen finally melted, or if there were none of her regular clique available!

Find that there are more mums that are friendly at dd3 private school than dd1&dd2 state school. Some of the mums at the state school just ignore me!! which isn't the case at dd3 school. The mums that ignore are in the yummy mummy group - all made-up & dressed up. But at dd3 school dressing to impress is out!! (good job with my wardrobe) & some of the parents are very wealthy.

Yes, I too believe in giving the other parents a chance (loads of chances) to thaw.

Has anyone said that private schools vary between themselves in who they attract? The school we use is very international - originally set up I think to fill the nursery/infants gap the American school leaves (because the American school doesn't start till 6) but now goes to 13 - and ds & dd have classmates from Japan, Morocco, India, Australia, Israel, New Zealand, USA, Lebanon, Spain, Russia etc. That makes for some very very nice interesting parents. (Plus some oligarchs, but I'm working on grinning at those too even.)

definately binkie. the school ds1 is going to in september has an intake all across the spectrum. the area we live in is predominately catholic so if you are of that persuasion you are spoilt for choice with State options. If you are any other faith it is really slim pickings. ds1 is C of E and our options even for primary were dire unless we were prepared to gain 60 points by enrolling him in sunday school, me attending pram club, going every week to church and getting involved with cell groups which is a step too far for us I'm afraid. Like Aloha said, in some areas its "pray or pay"!

i am afraid i dont understand either. the choice is
send your kid to a school locally thats crap.
send your kid to a school not so local thats crap
send your kid to a religeous school which may or may not be crap but you have to learn about jesus.

send your kid private.

i would say thats a choice.

what of those who cannot afford to send their kids private. or those who dont own their own house to move,

whatever way up you put this. your in a privalidged position if you send your child private.

I don't think anyone was arguing otherwise were they custy? Of course its a privilege to be able to opt private if you want it. The original thread however concerned whether you would feel out of place there if you didn't have a certain income.

Of course you would. Let's just say that little Johnny is quite clever and his mother, who lives on a council house estate, puts him in for a scholarship, which he gets. So he goes to the private school in a second-hand uniform, eating a packed-lunch. When the kids go off on days out or weekends away, he cannot as his mum cannot afford it. He doesn't wear any designer labels, has to share his bedroom with his younger brothers and so is too embarrassed to invite any friends back. Of course he would stick out like a sore thumb!

Where I work it's all about designer labels, the coolest mobile phone, photos from the ski-ing holiday, etc.

I agree that the situation in London is pretty dire. But what then of those parents who have the private school option taken away because they simply cannot afford it? Where do they send their children? Are there not car-sharing pools organised by parents of other children? Or a school bus scheme?

Again I will remind you of this point made by MartianBishop, that if private schools were closed, the government would have to spend 2 billion on state schools, they could no longer ignore the problem and just hope that more and more private schools will pop up, doing their job for them.

Also, if getting into a state school is so very hard in London, how come there are places in the private schools?

Custy - except that in Lambeth a significant number of kids do not get offered any place at all unless it is miles and miles away, and may still be crap - no discussion, because it's the ONLY place they are offered.

I'm not complaining on my own behalf - within certain strictures, I DO have the capacity to move to soemwhere else - but I don't see why other people, like my friend who has the child with allergies and has no place offered, has to put up with that kind of lack of choice. I pay taxes so that everyone can (supposedly) have a good state education within reasonable distance of where they live.

Rhubarbwitch - as I understand it, places at preferred private schools are pretty hard to come by, too! (and I don't mean 'posh' schools, I mean ordinary good quality private schools with a nice atmosphere and good education. Big shortage of those places round us - plenty of Mr_golden-handshake-from-failing-school-invests-in-twee-but-educationally-inferior-private-prep-mixed-academy.

well I was addressing my comments to mosschops who was the original poster and she didn't come across as in the same position as the example you've given in way shape or form. "Little Johnny's" mother for instance would be able to decide for herself whether the cons of him not fitting in would outweigh the benefit of his education and she would make her choice accordingly. I might have to parp myself in a minute because I'm not from the same school of thought as you Rhubarb in thinking that private should be obliterated for the fantasy of some idealised one size fits all standard of state school education. It just isn't going to happen and I don't see why people who can afford to pay for private education are asked to almost apologise for that. I come from a very working class background. My Dad was a coal man. I was the first person in my family to go to University. No-one handed me anything. I achieved things for myself and I left University with massive debts which I have just paid off at the grand old age of 35. I refuse to apologise for the fact I can send my kids to private school if I want to and be guilt tripped because "little johnny's" mum can't. he can go to the local state and with encouragement from his mum he can achieve whatever he likes. that's what I did.

I haven't finished the whole thread but I feel I need to make a few comments here.
DD1 has just started reception at an independent school, which is definitely NOT all white middle class, as someone said on this thread...actually there are far more Indian/Black girls in her school, than in the nice state primary schools of the area.

They do talk about all religions and all cultures, so you see not all independent schoosl are the same.

Final point, why blame parents who send children to private schools for the state of the public sector?

Blame the politicians, the notion that if bright kids went to state school they would automatically improve just makes no sense to me.

I come from a country where private schools are for underachieving kids, so I had never considered it an aption until I came her in the UK. But like all parents I chose what I thought would be best for dd1. I did not create the system just played by it.

sorry another different experience here, at dd's school they do invite parents in class to help with the reading and on trips to the library or museujms, so there you go, you just can't generalise!!

Rhubarb, the £2billion figure quoted is, I'm sure, the cost of providing school places just and solely for the children who wouldn't have a school anymore if private schools were abolished. That would be the extra costs of the buildings, the teachers, the land etc etc. It sounds very conservative to me personally. It would not be £2billion extra money to spend on children currently in state schools at all.
It certainly wouldn't help the children in London who cannot get a place in a state school or who have to travel miles accross London every day.

martianbishop stated on the other (3,000,000,000) thread that 1 in 3 children in independent schools get some kind of financial assisence so surely not all the kids have wealthy parents can't see little johnny sticking out too much if a third of the kids are getting financial help?

other thread

Sorry, some of you seem to think that I'm having a go, which I'm not. I did originally say that we all want the best for our children, I'm not blaming parents for the state of our education system at all!

Right now I'm not really in the mood for this, but hope it doesn't degenerate into a slagging match. I'm asking questions and getting them answered. Playing devil's advocate if you like, because I find the whole thing very interesting. Sorry if this curiousity gets up your goat.

As far as the "little Johnny" example goes, DH overheard a conversation between DS2 and his private-school friends about their various computer systems.
(them)"we've got an X box, a game cube and 3 computers",
"well ours is a playstation and we have a mac"
(and so on, all said in a very matter-of-fact, not boastful way)).
DS says "I've got a nintendo" (oldest ancient first sort).
"Have you? WOW. I haven't seen one of those".
They were genuinely interested, and he fit right in. AND his father stacks shelves in a supermarket.....

Rhubarb, the private school I went to, which was academically slelective, did and still does offer bursaries to those whose parents cannot afford to send them.

My own mother wrote to a number of companies and trusts to see if they would sponsro my education but none would and then she found out that school would help. (At least this is how I remember being told it at the time.)

It wasn't uncommon for people in 'ordinary' houses to be at the school. And school jollies (the skiiing.ridoing/adventure trip) only have a limited number of places anyway (often because they can't get the staff to take pupils, except for skiing which I understand is popular and there's huge number of teachers who volunteer - but presuambly not enough pupils wanting to go to get enough free/reduced places for them?).

Incidentally. when I transferred to state sixth form in a relatively well-off area (but far less so than some of my private school friends) I found it difficult to understnad why people had to be so loud-mouthed about their 3-4 holidays a year and what kind of car their parents drove as this was soooo different to the people I was used to mixing with.

Rhubarb - my experience of parents who use private schools is that teh conversations are more likely to be dominated by TK Maxx and bargain hunting rather than designer labels.

Most private school parents that I know are much more into experiences than possessions - so they would sacrifice teh latest or poshest car to go travelling to Peru in the holidays

There are lots though that would struggle to afford camping for a week and some who spend all summer at their caravan on the Kent coast and who have the childrens friends down to stay for days at a time.

I find the atmosphere very inclusive and usually non-judgemental. I suppose that there is as much a mix of wealth and possessions at private school as tehre is at state - the starting point is just different!