How are private schools spoonfed or pushed?

[OfCourseWeCan]

I often hear this and have seen this mentioned on several threads.

My DD is only 6 and is at state so I am really just curious.

Spoonfed?

His work is a lot harder and is ability appropriate rather then age appropriate.

Ds is 6 and at pre-prep. He is neither spoonfed nor pushed. Main difference between his school and his friends is class size so dcs are listened to in reading every day. Also existence of wraparound care. In terms of work I think it is similar. Our local state primaries are very good.

Smaller class sizes means less room to coast, copy or otherwise escape attention.

Lots of homework. Lots of tests. Constant monitoring and assessment. Pushy parents.

My dcs' school has a natural progression from 3-18 so there is continuity. Specialist teacherw work throughout the school so you get a properly qualified French teacher to teach you French at aged 7 and Music and PE teacher as opposed to an all round primary school teacher with an interest in football say. Generally high aspirations so teachers and peers will assume from Reception that you will go to university and a good university and are likely to have a career as a doctor or lawyer or whatever.

I think my DC wish they were spoonfed.
Their work at school is difficult and the expectations high.

I suspect what posters mean when they say that, is that an averagely bright child at independent school can achieve very well indeed with the small class sizes and close attention they receive.

How children fullfilling or exceeding expectations can ever be seen as a bad thing, is beyond me.

Terribly British though.

Well i suppose that is the danger of assumption. People are angry that private school kids pass the 11+ because they have been pushed and spoonfed but then again its not like the kids turn up with answers on their hands!

Is it possible then that my 6yr old DD is learning something completely different to what what is taught in private schools?

My perception of them is pushy because I get the impression they are very academic, focus little on more vocational subjects such as technology or art (but maybe that's the point?) and children have a lot of homework etc.

I wouldn't agree with this because I think children need time to be children and that they learn anyway - they don't need to be doing homework at the age of 5! I don't like homework at state primaries either TBH.

However I don't know anything about the private school system having no experience of it at all, so this is just a perception and might be complete bollocks (before I get jumped on). - if I've got it completely wrong, feel free to say :)

I wonder how many private schools do actually prep for 11+. None where I live do (in a grammar school area). However the ones that go on to 13 do prepare for CE.

One private prep school ds attended spent a lot of time preparing children for the common entrance exams for private secondaries (no grammar schools here). Most left with scholarships. I'd say the weekly tests/prep from year 5 up until the entrance exams in Jan year 6.

I agree with mollie O, at this stage (y1 6) in my son's private school the main difference I think compared to the also excellent local state primaries is that there are less kids so they read with the teacher every day and any slight dip in attention or enthusiasm is immediately picked up and chivvied out. The level is about the same I think, though they were recently assessed by the LEA as doing Y2 level work (I don't see this myself but first child so maybe wouldn't know). He seems about the same level as friends kids of similar age with reading, maths, spellings etc. Does a few extra bits like Music theory, sport every day etc.

Of course, compared to the ropey primary schools near us it is leagues apart.

DS is at a private school where they are spoonfed.
We decided not to send him to a private school where we would all be miserable he would be pushed.
He is quite bright and they are ruddy delighted with him, I think they are more used to kids who are struggling academically.

I increasingly believe that with private schools, there is not one type; ergo very wrong to generalise. A lot are pushy, but there are loads that take very different approaches, due to diverse philosophies (Montessori, alternative, Steiner, prep, high degree of pastoral care, etc.). In the private sector you get much more choice and variation, it's not all one standardised national curriculum with almost guaranteed class sizes of 25-35. You get all sorts when you go private.

There seems to be a lot of resent from parents on here about parents who encourage their children to learn.

We all know that if a child is exposed to something, whether its harder maths, harder books, history, geography, whatever, they learn something. Or they might be encouraged to sports activity that they would never have considered if they are given the opportunity.

They then might find its something they are interested in.

Or they might find their natural ceiling of what they understand at that time.

If you dont give your child the opportunity to be exposed to more information then how on earth will they develop an interest in learning.

Its all very well keeping children's knowledge at the average for their age but if they are exposed to something new then this has to be a positive.

I get really annoyed with labels of pushy parents. Its not a case of being pushy, its about opening up a child's experience and opportunities. There is nothing wrong with being encouraging.

Some private schools give these opportunities. Some primary and high schools do as well, but they are all different and you cant make direct comparisons.

My interpretation of being a "spoonfed" system is when you are lectured at and given lots of information but because you have not had a practical feel for it, it will go over your head and be forgotten.

To be "pushy" seems to be considered as any parent who is interested in how their child is doing at school, and helps them at home.

I dont believe that you should ever push a child beyond what they can naturally cope with at that time, but I do believe that you can help them at home to consolidate and make sure they understand what they have been taught in school.

There is often a misconception that private schools do less music, art, etc and spend all day whipping them into academic shape.

My experience was that the schools my DCs attended did lots of music, art, technology, sport,etc and tried to produce well-rounded young people not just exam passers

Erm - I must be a pushy parent. I ensure that my DCs do their homework. I take them to the library, read to them every day and encourage them to read for themselves every day too. I make sure they practise their spellings. I take them to museums and art galleries, but also to areas of outstanding natural beauty. I talk to them about life, the universe and everything.

I think their (state) schools must be pushy too. DD1 is at middle school, is in top sets for all the academic subjects and is taught in a group of about 15 children - no opportunities to coast there, the teachers are right in there with communication to me if there is any lapse from hard work. She is in Yr 5, is doing work from Yr 7/8 and the school is committed to working with the local secondaries to continue this. This is normal practice for this school.

DD2 is in Yr3, doing maths in Yr 4 in a group operating at Yr5 level - ditto for Science and English. She is expected to finish the year at the level of an average 11-yo and this is considered normal for her. She is praised, but not excessively.

Schools vary across the board, state or private.

Most of the private schools around where I live focus heavily on sports and other activities other than the academics. They do get greater opportunities to do stuff that they dont get at the local high schools, ie golf, horseriding,windsurfing, sailing, etc. To get into some of them, you have to have good skills at something physical and something to offer to the school. (High school level).

But, our local high schools still give children great opportunities to as well and there is for and against for both, but not as many of the extremely expensive ones.

Our school does not extend the children at all. They work at the set level for their age but they do focus on developing a whole well rounded person and leave the academic stuff for high school. This is the main reason why we encourage the basics at home, so am therefore probably considered a pushy parent by mumsnet mums.

Look at my post below this one, at this prep school (like many others) there are actually links for parents (who are encouraged to take a very active part in DC's education) and children are told how to improve their work.

The curriculum is engaging and creative and parents are not told their children are just 'fine' and don't worry about doing anything more at home if they are average. Need I say more? :)

Good independent schools encourage independent thinking and study. My own DCs are not spoonfed in any way. Quite the opposite. They are made to find quotations to back up what they say. Their science work is often to research a topic. Their English homework last week was to find one particular poem by Lewis Carroll, print it off and then learn it BY THE NEXT DAY. How is that spoonfeeding?
On the other hand, they are pushed if by that you mean they get piles of homework every week in term time AND IT HAS TO BE DONE.
Sorry for capitals but you get the point.

Can I point out homework is often, count the electrical items in your bedroom, draw what you can see from your kitchen window that sort of thing up to the age of 11 at least, it's reinforcing what the teacher has done that day which should happen in every school.
At state ours didn't have homework diaries so you knew what had happened in school and the teachers weren't prepared to discuss with 30 of us what we should do to stretch our children, any suggestion of a follow up book because they are interested or a museum was met with a blank stare.

You never knew what had happened in school I meant

Definitely no spoonfeeding.

'pushing' is more debatable. I too think uber-selective schools with piles of homework at primary level sound grim. IMHO i is more about specialist teachers with small classes and high expectations - DS has no homework outside school, but does a long day, and because the small class sizes allow the teachers to focus much more on the individual, expectations are based on what that child could achieve, not what is 'good enough'.

All of the above is the mark of a good school, irrespective of fees/lack of same, IMO.

ds1 is year 5 at a non selective private prep with a very wide range of abilities in the class.

they don't coach for 11+ at all (though we are in a grammar area), only for common entrance exams.

they definitely have more homework than the local state school, and seem to work at approx 1 year above the national curriculum.

they have very good sports drama and music facilities compared to state school.

they have 16-20 in a class instead of 30.

This thread is about a thread I started.

I suppose it depends what your definition of spoonfeeding is.

The private girls' school I attended had small classes and lots of homework. If a girl was not doing her best or in danger of not handing course work in on time she was nagged and if necessary punished. Children were not allowed to fail. I assume this is what my parents were paying for.

In a state school with a class of 30 its just not humanly possible to give that kind of level of attention that you can to a class of 10.

However I think there is more to life than exam results. My son is far happier at school than I ever was. The private school I went to did not prepare me for the real world. I found going to uni a real shock.

Things have changed in both the private and state sector though reallytired I went to the worse primary school you can imagine, it was dire and we drove past it a few months ago and it's unrecognisable, not doubt the girls school you went to has moved with the times too.

Yes, the world has moved on.

I went to a sink school. No one gave a shit if we handed in our homework or not. Certainly it was rarely amrked if we did.

The only life it prepared us for was manual work/unemployment.

I can't base my whole view of state education on my bad experience.