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Original poster

How are private schools spoonfed or pushed?

91 replies

OfCourseWeCan · 06/02/2011 18:55

I often hear this and have seen this mentioned on several threads.

My DD is only 6 and is at state so I am really just curious.

OP posts:
stealthsquiggle · 07/02/2011 11:26

reallytired - couldn't agree more about there being more to life than exam results.

I went to a school at 11, and left again at 12 because we moved. The school I ended up at was superficially similar (all girls, independent, selective) but far less "academic" (read pushy) - and when I met up with girls from school #1 at university I was shocked by the extent to which they had been driven to succeed in exams at all costs - and were not happy or rounded people as a result.

..so the devil, as ever, is in the detail.

Barbeasty · 07/02/2011 11:32

At my private secondary school, which I attended until 16, I suppose "pushing" came from an assumption that we would all do well and that you had to work. Not doing homework or coursework just wasn't tolerated. This was hugely at odds with my state sixth form where there were no sanctions and deadlines were ignored. For my physics coursework there wasn't any discussion of whether the experiment selected was suitable etc I was simply left to do it, write it up and submit it and was given a U. I also took the practical exam (as then the school could choose which of those 2 modules counted towards the A-level marks) and got 100%- a slight discrepancy!

As for spoonfeeding, a criticism that my brothers (educated entirely at the school I attended for sixth form) often threw at me, well I will admit that yes, my teachers at the private school all had an in-depth knowledge of their subjects. My main physics teacher didn't have an A-level in physics, let alone a physics degree, and couldn't help us if we got stuck. The other difference was in English, where our teachers had worked as markers for the exam boards and understood both the types of questions likely to be posed and the types of answers looked for. But this is really good teaching rather than spoon feeding. In terms of depth and breadth of knowledge we covered far more at my school than my brothers had by 16.

Cortina · 07/02/2011 11:41

I was surprised when friends at private school had been told what to do to make sure that they got the very top grades at A'levels.

It seemed a B could be turned into an A through a series of secret, clever tricks. The examiners had a tick box list and if you met the criteria the A was yours for the taking.

No one told us about this 'code' at our state school.

MrsGrahamBellForTheSkiSeason · 07/02/2011 12:18

Reallytired - lol @ the idea of University being 'the real world'.

MollieO · 07/02/2011 12:54

Cortina I've heard the same. Unfortunately at my state school some of my 6th form tutors spent their lesson times either teaching us how to do the Times crossword or doing research for the books they were writing to supplement their salaries. Meant that some of my subjects were practically self taught.

The good thing about being an educated parent is I will be wise to this for my own dc (my own parents both had to leave school at 14 so didn't realise that this sort of teacher behaviour was unacceptable).

Cortina · 07/02/2011 13:02

Ah yes, we had one who used to get us to copy out chapters from textbooks whilst he read the paper. Thing is we didn't complain, in fact we encouraged him. We needed a bit of 'guidance' :).

A friend's DD got a D recently at GCSE that they were able to reattempt until they secured an A. Not that I blame them but it seems the system has changed since my day. Not sure if this 'secret code' exists. Their DD is at an excellent private school btw.

Cortina · 07/02/2011 13:03

That should read, 'still exists'.

reallytired · 07/02/2011 13:07

An example of spoonfeeding. I found A-level maths really hard. I was in a class of four and my maths teacher gave me extra tution to ensure I got a B.

Or GCSE history where the history teacher sat with me and explained the marking scheme and going through my mock paper. She told me the wording and phases I needed to use turn a D into A in the real thing.

Or the English teacher who slogged her guts out to help me with course work.

I did have excellent teaching, but that quality of teaching was possible because of the small classes.

My teachers sweated blood, but expected the pupils to do the same.

Cortina · 07/02/2011 13:22

Reallytired that doesn't surprise me. I posted a link in my thread, it's an english teacher's blog from a school in West London.

He's creative, fun and interesting and incrementally he shows his pupils exactly how they can learn the craft of brilliant writing & fathom comprehension. People love to believe that some are just brighter than others but put any average child in his classes and if they followed his advice they would smash goals and expectations I'm sure.

Most people can learn to write well. It's not rocket science, I believe many are capable of far more than they know.

No one ever broke things down like that or explained as cheerfully and carefully as he does. What a wonderful advantage these children have.

jonicomelately · 07/02/2011 13:29

litchick

I went to an awful, truly awful primary school. The teachers (mainly men) were all really odd and it was an unhappy, strange experience. It was in a really poor area and I wonder if they just thought it was OK for us to just get by. There was no sense of aspiration. I could go on but I think you get the picture.

Recently curiousity got the better of me and I googled the school. Looking at their website I could feel the tears welling up. It looked such a happy, nice, forward thinking place. I was so happy for the children Smile

mamatomany · 07/02/2011 13:40

I did have excellent teaching, but that quality of teaching was possible because of the small classes.

My teachers sweated blood, but expected the pupils to do the same.

Do you have any idea how fucking ungrateful you sound ?
Thank your lucky stars every day rather than moan about "spoonfeeding" I wish we'd had any teaching whatsoever, I still came out with B B C imagine what i might have achieved with your breaks in life, i sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about it and why aren't you giving your child the same opportunities ?

Lilymaid · 07/02/2011 13:45

Cortina, you can work out the 'secret code' merely by looking at the marking schemes. My DS always told me what they needed to know (or mainly what they didn't need to know). Back in my day you learnt everything you could about a subject, now you learn to the mark scheme.

Cortina · 07/02/2011 13:52

It's a way off for us (GCSE territory). Thanks.

When I took my A'levels and O'levels privately educated friends were very aware of the 'mark scheme'/'code' in the way reallytired explains. It would have been good to understand it/have been made aware of it back then. I think many were. Certainly there were never any 'Cortina you are currently a B to get to a A the examiners will be looking for X,Y and Z in particular' conversations. These would have helped enormously. I felt I had to 'know everything' to do well and then blindly hope for the best.

sue52 · 07/02/2011 13:58

When my daughter joined her grammar school, she was surprised that there were a few girls in her class who interrupted the teacher to ask what DD thought to be questions that they could easily have found out the answers to themselves. The girls came from a local prep school with very small classes where the teacher presumably could spend more time on individual girls. I'm not sure if that's what is meant by spoon feeding, it just seems a result of class size.
Lilymaid what you say is quite true and some schools spend a lot of time on exam technique rather than teaching the subject.

reallytired · 07/02/2011 14:01

" why aren't you giving your child the same opportunities ?"

My son is happy! He enjoys school far more than I did. I feel that a happy childhood is worth far more than a string of straight As.

What greater gift can a parent give a child than a happy childhood?

The private girls school I went was not without its problem. Some of the girls were anorexic and one girl attempted sucide because she funked her mocks!

There needs to be balance between providing a nuturing enviroment and helping children to achieve.

Going back to the other thread. Completing for grammar school places has become ridiculous. Its almost like the arms race with the cold war.

reallytired · 07/02/2011 14:19

"Thank your lucky stars every day rather than moan about "spoonfeeding" I wish we'd had any teaching whatsoever, I still came out with B B C imagine what i might have achieved with your breaks in life"

So you share my sentiment that its pretty unfair that I got a better education.

The maths teacher at the school I went to reckoned that their preparation statistically made a difference of about a grade. If the school I went to is to be believed then you would have got A A B.

However there is no way of knowing whether this is true as there is no re run in life.

I am not well paid, but my job does a lot to improve the quality of other people's lives.

Original poster
OfCourseWeCan · 07/02/2011 14:55

Reading all this has confirmed something to me. Private school students get the 'attention' they need and this is seen as spoonfeeding.

OP posts:
webwiz · 07/02/2011 15:08

This where we start going round in circles because my DCs are certainly spoonfed at their state school because I can identify plenty of individual attention that helped them to understand how to get to a higher grade or understand a concept that they found difficult.

PinkDiary · 07/02/2011 15:18

Yes, webwiz

This whole spoonfeeding thing is rubbish to be honest. It seems to me its just teachers doing their job!

RatherBeOnThePiste · 07/02/2011 15:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Litchick · 07/02/2011 15:31

See the connotations of spoonfeeding are negative. Yet, it seems a term for somehting everyone benefits from ie one to one attention.

I don't get how that could ever be a bad thing!!!! It's fantastic when someone mentors you and pays specific attention. You achieve so much more.

MrsGrahamBellForTheSkiSeason · 07/02/2011 17:17

The term 'spoonfed' is of course pejorative because you only hear it used by the bitter & twisted who for some reason feel they need to hurl insults at people from fee-paying schools who achieve high grades - who and don't want to believe it might just be because of better teaching by enthusiastic teachers who can inspire and encourage children.

diabolo · 07/02/2011 19:02

DS at prep (Y6) and loves it!

Is he pushed = yes;

spoonfed (?)= no - far less than his old primary and the middle school I work at, where everyone has got to be told exactly what to do all the time (or they simply dont do it)

What I value most at his school is the independence of thought that is actively encouraged.

Xenia · 07/02/2011 19:44

There is no code. There might be better teaching but they teach around the syllabus at the best schools and it is the opoosite of spoon feeding. You are taught how to think and to think and learn beyond the syllabus. The better schools will all do that. There are no SATs. There is no national curriculm and some do university work in the sxith form if A level is a bit too easy for some children there.

Age 4 - 10 they tend to be a year or two ahead of state schools but that's selective private schools where everyone in the class will have an IA over 115 - 120 so you can have everyone working at a faster pace and the children be stretched. It's harder to do that if the class is mixed ability. However plenty of private schools cater instead for children who aren't very bright.

What most parents aim for in both systems is to give children chances to shine in all sorts of areas and develop their talents. It's just that the private schools seem better at it.

There are also some good state schools as well as the type Bar described above.

The recent BBC programme about how people get jobs post university was quite interesting on some of the things which matter long term which some state schools could do b etetr to each their pupils.

elliott · 07/02/2011 19:53

I think 'spoonfed' in the negative sense means teaching that is solely about performance in exams, rather than about learning and being challenged to think and solve problems, and become an independent learner. Obviously one wants to become the latter but not at the expense of the former.
I am not sure that spoonfeeding is confined to either sector, its more about the quality of teaching and also the ethos of the school.