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When do you know the school's not right for DC?

56 replies

Solo2 · 26/01/2011 10:38

Has anyone here had a child who's gone through a difficult time at school (like DS1 now aged 9) but, with parental support and persistence, has got through this and thrived?

DS1 - like his twin - is in an academically selective prep school. He was offered a place at age 2.75 at the pre-prep, perceived as the 'right sort of child for the school' but I turned the place as his twin didn't get in. Both were offered places at age 6.

DS2 is thriving - except struggling with maths, as the school are doing 11+ maths with these 9 to 10 yr olds, given there are several genuine maths geniuses at the school. DS1 isn't thriving. He's having a difficult year socially, feels isolated and bullied and is very very down on himself academically.

He keeps telling me he's "stupid".Sad He's in 'remedial handwriting'. He's struggling in the middle set of three maths sets and being told he'll be 'put down' if he doesn't do better. The maths teacher uses public comparisons and sarcasm to 'support' children Hmm. The school's feedback is that DS1's unfocused and lazy.

He's right in the middle of seeing a neuropsychologist, privately, as I think he has problems with attention/ memory and processing at speed but there's no outcome yet. I think his difficulties academically are hard-wired cognitive problems - not lack of trying.

He's recently had some ongoing health issues (investigations for irregular heartbeat and recurrent vomiting).

This school has a fantastic reputation and the seniors is somewhere near the top of the league tables. It's rapidly expanding and hugely oversubscribed. Class size is quite large for a fee-paying school (24 to 26 in each of three Yr 5 classes). It's 'known' locally as the 'best' school and both my twins are aware of it's reputation and don't want to leave. They feel familiar with the school, until last yr, DS1 had loads of friends and DS2 fits really well here (has Asperger's traits but so do many of the other children).

But for the first time, I'm seriously wondering if it's been a huge mistake to send them here. Maybe others have been in the position where your child has managed to pass entrance exams for an academically selective school and you feel proud and get caught up on a wave of feeling that they've 'made it' - a bit like I remember feeling when I got into Oxbridge. I wasn't happy there, however and I'm not sure DS1 is happy at age 9 at a highly 'esteemed' school.

Can this still work for DS1? Could he just be going through a difficult phase? Might he be fine by Yr 6 and have others had children who have similarly floundered but survived and thrived?

He'd be devastated to leave and it'd be logistically impossible to manage him in one school and DS2 in the current school (I'm a single mum running f/t business alone and no family support around). So in a way, either both stay or both leave...If DS2 stayed and DS1 left, I think DS1 would feel always that he was the one who'd 'failed'.

But then there's the thing that there's no clear alternative. There are 3 other fee-paying schools - with smaller class sizes - which is gugely attractive. Two of these, ('posher but not so academically selective)though, end at age 13 and many of the children then go to boarding school - not an option I'd consider / want or be able to afford.

The other school ends at age 16 - with children going on to 6 form colleges - and the school fees are less than what I pay now but there are only 16 children in each class. However, this school seesm to have a local reputation as the school you send your DCs to if they have "emotional/ psychological problems and aren't very bright" (not my words). My DCs would feel massively 'demoted' by a move here and neither wants to leave the current school either....

The local state schools are fine but have large class sizes and in no way compare with the fee-paying schools in terms of results, opportunities, extra curricular things.

As I have no partner to discuss this with, I thought I'd 'put it out' on MN. I'm about to meet with the deputy head and DS1s form teacher but this is to discuss how to help DS1 with friendships rather than a wider picture about his loss of confidence academically as well. I've already talked to the school about this but nothing's changed and I can hardly say, "can you get some better teachers, reduce class size and ensure that the maths teacher stops declaring publicly, DS1's poor test results each week"!

There is even more pressure than usual on the children as they approach important Yr 5 exams. They're getting masses of homework, as well as being expected to revise and certainly my DCs are not managing any revision as their ordinary homework alone (well the maths really) is taking 2 to 2.5 hrs a night. Last night they were both crying about feeling too tired to do anymore and I was in conflict, feeling like I'm failing them if I don't support them to complete homework but also feeling like I'm failing them if I push them beyond the limits.Confused Sad

This is all detail but my core question right now is - do I take them out of this school - but thereby possibly pass up on the 'best' education they might have - or do I keep trying to work with them and the school to help them/ DS1 through a difficult but hopefully transient phase?

Who has experiences to support each side of the argument please?

OP posts:
marialuisa · 26/01/2011 10:54

Do you think it might help to take your blinkers about it being "the best school" off and have a look at the work individual children are actually doing at the other schools?

I went to academically selective schools which have a pushy/hothouse reputation and it was nothing like this. My DD is at an academically selective school and it's nothing like this. In fact I'd think there was something wrong with a selective school that had to work in this way with supposedly bright kids to get good results. DD's school has a policy of no homework over weekends, holidays or in the summer term for example.....

mrswoodentop · 26/01/2011 10:54

Not quite the same but my ds1 was at what many perceive as the more academic independent school in the area,he was very happy in the pre prep as were we but in the prep he just never seemed to settle or enjoy it ,he had friends but was very negative about school.It is easy especially with number one to fall into the trap of thinking that"he's just not a school type"or it will be better next year.

Academically he was fine but not really flying IYSWIM.He sat for the senior school and also for what i would call a more traditional independent school,more srty but still academically strong but not so selective.If i am honest in the pit of my stomach I felt this would suit hm more,but having passed into the senior school of his own school he wanted to stay with his friends.He was miserable ,felt ignoreed was in the middle of several streams .
at the middle of year 8 we made the decision to move him,he was in favour but the summer was awful as he begged to stay with his friends and the change was difficult but it has been a complete success.

He is so much happier and now admits how miserable he was before ,but he thought thats what school was like,I feel guilty that I left it so long.

He did very well at GCSE(all A's and A stars)better I think than he would have done than at the more ostensibly academic school because they have drawn him out and encouraged him,the pastoral care is beyond comparison.Not all children need this but clearly he did.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that if you think it is wrong it probably is ,personally I would look at the preps,deal with the transfer at 13 later,also the advanatge of preps is that they really specialise in that age range and you avoid the year 8 boredom of the 11-18 senior school.Also many transfer at 13 to day schools too.

NadiaWadia · 26/01/2011 10:54

And people say private schools are 'better'!

OP I don't want to be harsh but this school, whatever its reputation, is clearly not meeting the needs of your DCs.

Nine-year-olds reduced to tears by hours of homework. Teachers publicly humilliating children. The place sounds truly dreadful, and you are paying for this?

Kids are supposed to enjoy their childhood!
I think you need to look elsewhere, because it sounds like things probably won't improve.

mrswoodentop · 26/01/2011 10:56

Sorry that was meant to say more arty.

NadiaWadia · 26/01/2011 10:57

And probably you should report your concerns to OFSTED.

Ivie · 26/01/2011 10:58

I would take both your children out of the school immediately.

mrswoodentop · 26/01/2011 11:07

Having re read your post about the homework in year 5 I would move them,how ridiculous .Life is too short.If they are bright they will do well,now ds1 is 17 there is no difference between those with As who went to academic hot houses and those who didn't at primary school and it really didn't matter as much as you think it does at that age.

They need to be happy confident people not stressed out robots

lateSeptember1964 · 26/01/2011 11:31

I read this with interest as ds2 is doing great at a private school but ds3 hates it. I think I knew from day 1 that it wasn't for him but I wanted to give him the same chance as his brother. I had a lightbulb moment last night (after both of us having another meltdown over homework) when I felt that I need to start looking at schools that are more suited to a child who is more creative. Life is to short and I really didn't bring him into the world to make him unhappy. I would suggest keep an open mind and go and look at some other schools.

Fiddledee · 26/01/2011 11:42

My DH got very ill while at a primary school he did not like - they did loads of tests on him and once he was moved schools all symptoms disappeared. Move DS1 and keep DS2 there seems the obvious answer.

Miggsie · 26/01/2011 11:51

I recently turned down a place for DD at the "best" private school round here. It might have been best for the very aspirational pushy parents and their over prepped, obedient offspring, but for DD who is a rugged individual with bags of sponteneity and her own way of doing things, it wasn't the right school. We saw the other private school that the aspirational parents look down on and decied that was right for DD and her character, DD also agreed with us on that.

It was so hard, turning down the "best" school that my little adult predjudices saw as a "sucess" for my daughter to get accepted into, but I had to accept it wasn't right for her, no matter how well the other children got on there, she wouldn't thrive. The school pushed the kids along in a big group and everyone had to achieve everything all together and all the same, so some kids struggled and had tutors in the evening and others were sitting there a bit bored.

So, I understand how you, as the parent, struggle against the "everyone says this school is the best", the trouble is, it isn't best for your son.

I'd visit the school that all the other parents look down on and make your own mind up. A friend at work for instance thinks any school other than St Pauls is utter rubbish and if his kids don't really like it, then that's tough.

If your son is struggling and getting no support then it isn't the right school for him. We found the private school that was looked down on, was much freer about when and what the children achieved in, as a result the kids are all happy and several are miles ahead of the other prep schools in their work as they all learn at their own pace. It is accepted that everyone progreeses differently ad this is celebrated, not depised.

atah · 26/01/2011 12:11

I agree with everyone here, take him out and move him to the right school - for him. BUT Thats the difficult bit, finding the right school and being absolutely sure it is right before they start there. Thats exactly where I am at and I am finding it hard to decide which is the right school because if it doesn't work this time, my DS will feel it is he who has failed. Sad

My DS is desperately unhappy but as he is at an academic selective school he is against moving to a non-selective school, where I know that socially he will thrive (academically he would thrive anywhere). i have to find somewhere and convince him, I have been looking since before xmas and can't really say anywhere has given me the right vibes yet. Please do let us know what you decide.
miggsie i think I know your friend at work with the St Pauls fixation and I am afraid I listened too much, got carried away with the great prep/set for life idea and sadly the opposite has been true for my DS - I would love to turn back the clock to happy days pre 7+

IndigoBell · 26/01/2011 12:31

God - the school sounds awful.

This is not a redeemable situation. Move him.

NadiaWadia · 26/01/2011 12:36

And there are no 'important' Yr5 exams. Trust me, the only ones that matter are GCSE and 'A' level.

DD (18) has been at state school thoughout (mostly excellent). She has been happy and managed plenty of time for a normal social life and extra-curricular activities.

She has just had 4 university offers, 2 of them for Russell Group universities. And she's not even a 'straight-A' student, more As and Bs.

I have no doubt she would have been thoroughly miserable at a typical prep/independent school, where she would probably have been pushed and pushed and all creativity would have been stifled.

Not to say all independent schools are like this, but seems a majority are. They only care about results and league tables, not the individual child.

Do your family a favour and remove your DSs. (And save yourself a lot of dosh as well!)

Fiddledee · 26/01/2011 12:56

NadiaWadia have you had personal experience of a prep school?

NadiaWadia · 26/01/2011 13:22

Well I've not attended one myself, nor have DCs but I know plenty of people who have and see the kids overloaded with homework etc.

When we lived in another part of the country where the state schools were not so good we did consider 'pre-prep' for DD but looked around a couple and were shocked to see 4-year-olds sitting at desks in rows, and the
focus on early reading and writing to the exclusion of anything else, and rows of identical pictures and poems on the walls. Not much creativity going on there!

All this 'assessing' 3 year olds for entry as well - horrific.

One prospectus mentioned that pupils had to maintain a reading age 2 years in advance of their chronological age or they could be asked to leave. And the head of another school when I enquired and I expressed something negative (can't remember what now) about the state nursery class DD was in, said something like 'yes, and of course there will be the problem of some rather unsavoury classmates.' Tosser!

To be honest, we couldn't have afforded it really, but I do feel we have given DD the best education for her.

Of course I could have looked round particularly crap specimens of schools.

SDeuchars · 26/01/2011 13:44

pupils had to maintain a reading age 2 years in advance of their chronological age

Good grief! does that mean the 30yo teacher has to maintain a reading age of 32??? What a load of bs.

atah · 26/01/2011 14:28

I think the OP wanted opinions on whether to take her DS out of his current school and whether to take his twin out too. The state V private decision is probably one she consider carefully and make herself.

Dancergirl · 26/01/2011 14:49

Agree with other posters - not the right school for your ds and I would also move your other son.

I would seriously consider the local state schools. They may not offer as much extra-curricular stuff but it's easy to get caught up on that. Nice but not essential. Your sons may not even take part in the extra activities anyway. You mention class sizes - most state schools are around 30 in a class but that's only about 6 more than at your current fee-paying school!

There is absolutetly no point in sending your child to a well-respected, academic school that apparently offers the 'best' education if that child is going to be unhappy. It's v obvious from your post that this is not the right school for your child so don't leave it any longer - he sounds miserable.

My own dd is in Year 5 and I would be horrified if she was under pressure like this. She's thriving at a state primary and I have no doubts about her getting into university or whatever she wants to do later on. Meanwhile she's enjoying her childhood.

Acanthus · 26/01/2011 14:54

You have posted about this before, and I say now what I said then. Go and look at the "less prestigious" school and talk to them about what they could do for your son. You are too hung up on the kudos of the current school and I don't think you are looking properly at all the options.

Solo2 · 26/01/2011 19:16

Thanks for the feedback - almost universlly against the school.

Meanwhile, my little boy has now become ill tonight - with a high temp., headaches and sickness - which he had on and off since Xmas and has only been back 1 week at school.

This could be a virus, or something to do with the as yet undiagnosed medical issues he's been having - or I suppose there's alwasy the possibility it's because he's unhappy about the detention tomorrow - but as he's just completed 1.5 hrs maths and geog homework and was about to have supper and watch his favourite TV programme, I don't think this is psychological.

Hope the school believes me when I phone him off sick tomorrow. Have to put on hold any of the general worries about the school again and focus on getting DS1 better.

OP posts:
icancancan · 26/01/2011 22:19

good luck with your decision Solo2 - try not to be 'swayed' by the schools reputation and the reaction of others if you decide to take your ds's out. you will not be throwing their future away honestly! they are still young children and deserve to be happy at school. Hope your ds feels better soon ..

Silverstreet · 26/01/2011 23:20

Solo, I have been in a similar situation and we decided if our child was not happy on a daily basis then it was not the right school. Was the best decision we ever made.

lateSeptember1964 · 27/01/2011 06:41

1.5 hours maths and geog homework for a year 5 child. Thats awful!

emy72 · 27/01/2011 11:00

Solo2, bearing in mind all your previous posts about this school too, I would seriously consider moving your boys.

I know how hard this is, we've had issues with our current school, but keep working at it as the alternatives aren't a guarantee of happiness and the kids would hate to be moved.

Might be worth posting on local to see if anyone can give you some personal experience of other schools where you live - or maybe you already know parents with children at other schools. It's hard anyway, because each child's experience is so greatly different!!!

Good luck with your decision, I feel your pain. I do think too much homework at this stage though it's not so good.

ragged · 27/01/2011 11:34

You've posted a lot about your twins before, no, Solo? Especially the underperforming DS1?

I suggest you leave the DS2 where he is and move the DS1 to a local state school. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to who thrived after being moved to a supposedly inferior school.

I have one in private and 2 in state, DC are each in the best environment for their individual needs.