What do you think of the Education White Paper?

[Shamster]

Our head went through the key points at last nights staff meeting and the effect was pretty depressing. Sounds stupid but two of us almost started crying! Just wondered if anyone has read it for themselves, rather than picking up whichever bits each paper decides to highlight according to their leanings. If you have; what do you think?

"Feenie - the problem with your reply - which I dare say is correct - that 85% of words are decodeable is that many if not most of the really high frequency words fall into the 15% - which is why Peter and Jane's 'key word' scheme worked so well for my, my DCs and numerous other children."

It's the other way around, actually - most high frequency words are perfectly decodable. Sight reading works for lots of children who would have learned to read easily anyway - but synthetic phonics works for most. t
The reason that teachers are so cros with shamster is because teaching children to guess using picture clues is truly atrocious practice - and it's this, plus using mixed methods, that confuses struggling children - the very ones, as a SENCO, that Shamster is supposed to help. This is now well established fact in education.
Dyslexia Action, amongst other establishments, recommend a systematic daily programme of synthetic phonics for a reason - it really works - what do you do for your dyslexic children, Shamster, and when do they learn to read at your school? Because if you continue to use mixed methods - or let them guess - you are doing untold damage to their learning and perception of themselves.

Oh, and r.e. "There is somebody here that simply won't move on" - are you for real? You sound like my Y5 girls when they want to unpleasantly exclude someone from their conversation. This is a public opinion board - you don't get to dictate the discussion, and if you post something that other people find silly, such as 'never mind real books, enjoying what you read or seeing value in it. Never mind the context of the text, which is as important as the actual phonics' or 'There are many ways into reading: picture clues', then you can expect to be pulled up on it.

MNHQ would agree that personal attacks are not on - but if the posters defending you had a dc who struggled, and you let them struggle on by guessing, they may think differently.

Right, I'm back. To reply to granted: value added will look at the starting point of children when they enter the school system and compare it to where they are when they leave, which is absolutely as it should be. Context value added gives a rounded, if sometime flawed picture, includes infomation such as postcodes to determine how affluent an area is, free school meals, EAL etc. It basically provides a context for the baseline scores. We will benefit from this as a school from this as we are in a certain area, but other schools, especially the ones who get lots of leeway because they are in a deprived area, or an area where 80% of the children are English as an additionla language, will lose out. ShanahansRevenge I also agree that schols should be looked at in terms of emotional wellbeing of their children. They actually state in one part of the paper that they know how important the wellbeing of children in school is, and then in another part, say Ofsted will no longer be looking at that aspect.

Feenie; last time I'm going to respond to you. You have been insulting and you have been rude. MNHQ do not actually tolerate any rudeness and there is no justification for it. I do not know the particlar children you are talking about, but if I did, I would meet with you as the parent and discuss the exact areas that needed to be worked on. I would then write an IEP, based on that child' needs and put an intervention in place that suited the child's learning style. As I stated before, you have no idea about my abilities as a teacher but I have noticed that you take no notice when I have said, several times, that I do use phonics and believe it has a place. Education has phases of what is in and what is out. It is somethig that has gone on for years and will go on for years. When something is the in things, every other method is scoffed and the amount of u turns that have happened over the last 20 years is quite amazing. So as a teacher, and a good one I use an overall method and tailor it to suit each child.
Just to finish: I agree with Dylexia action. This comes from their website:

There is still to be, accountability, including inspections and a degree of prescription in some areas. So, for example, schools are being given a very clear steer that synthetic phonics is 'the best method for teaching reading'. And, to digress a little at this point, I would agree that it is the best method through which to begin the process of teaching reading, but it does not cover all of what must be learned and there remain some children who will need additional methods.

His final point is exactly what I think. Some children need additional methods.

Shamster: the current CVA measures are being abolished (para 6.12), but contextual information and new progress measures will be introduced instead (para 6.13, 6.14, 6.15). It overlaps with a (yet to be issued) Green Paper which will have the detail. Until we see that detail, it is premature to condemn. We need the detail of Pupil Premium too.

Ok onimolap, that sounds better. I guess we do have to see exactly what they decide to include. Yes we certainly need detail of the Pupil Premium. IF, as it seems, it is going to come from within the budget then some children are going to lost out in order for others to have the Pupil Premium. It is still all quite wooly. Thanks for pointing that out, though.

Shamster - thanks for the CVA explanation. I never fully understood it before.

It seems to me that using CVA is saying: not only do children from more deprived homes start from a lower base academically - but we must expect them to progress at a slower rate too!

Is that fair? If it is, you can see why some people aren't happy with it.

Sorry - I meant was my explanation a fair one? (never at my best on a Sat morning).

I feel quite angry for the children who are being taught to read by looking at the pictures to be honest granted...

Shamster a serious question ...what is your motivation for scaremongering? if I hadn't read that you claim to be a teacher and SENCO I would have guessed DM journalist ...

ShanahansRevenge please don't worry, just because the pastoral care element has been removed from Ofsted's remit it doesn't mean that schools will no longer have a duty of care or that they will no longer be inspected on how well they promote children's welfare. Simply it won't be done by the Office for Standards in Education.

I agree jackstarbright some schools use it as an excuse and surely all children have the right to expect to be taught to the highest standard.

It's not fair jackstarbright but I'm sure that it is more difficult to achieve the standard levels in schools that suffer huge deprivation. I have a friend who works in a very difficult school were 55% are on the SEN register and the area that this school is in is one of the most deprived areas here. She struggles to get many parents onside, some of whom can not read or write themselves. Childen from these backgrounds can certainly do very well but they need extra support from the school as they have many other things to contend with in their lives, aswell as school. The amount of homework that schools give out means that children who come from hmes where they don't gte help with that, can really struggle. We have a lunchtime homework club for these children but we don't have a huge number. I'm not sure what happens in my friens school.This government, at the same time as overahauling the education system, are emoving so much of the support that that thses families need. We are struggling to get Specialist Support Teachers into schools for all but the absolute most needy children. Late year, we had far more access to outside agencies but as everyone is now overstretched, it means fewer children will get outside agency support. Does that make sense?

Mrz....how will parents be able to judge before they accept a place though? My DC are sorted...but only because DD1 got a bursary and the head of her school is weirdlyincredibly generous and understanding....what about people who are sending their DC to schools where there will be no formal report on ho the schools in question manages childrens wll-being?

It will all be guess work and hearsay...as far as I can see, the pastoral care of kids is the one most important thing to bear in mind when choosing a school and good results come second.

I feel very worried for the furture of our schools really..and it will affect all children.

Oh and thank you for explaing things Mrz

Mrz; I do not teach reading by merely looking at the pictures. For crying out loud. I wasn't scaremongering: I wanted to know what people thought of the entire paper. We had a detailed discussion in the staffroom going through it point by point. That was my motivation. We are a good school so clearly, we all don't know what we're doing according to you You have taken one piece of my original post, out of context, and made an incorrect assumption. What is it about these words that are so difficult for you to understand? "I do use phonics and do think it works for some children but not all". Why is that so offensive to you? You also, as I've said to feenie, do not know me or the way that I teach. I feel angry that this has become so personal and to me, shows a distinct lack of proffesionalism and bac=sic understanding on your part. I have said I use phonics, why are you still insisting that I don't? I will not let small minded people put me down, and as I said to feenie, unless you want to comment on trhe paper as a whole, I won't be responding to you again either!

Shamster - But pupils from deprived home do attract more funding (and will get even more with the pupil premium). And under the proposed funding changes this extra funding will go direct to the school (now LEAs spread it around all their schools).

Granted, schools with a small proportion of deprived pupils will loose out under this scheme.

Do you honestly believe that reports produced by Ofsted who perhaps spend 2 full days in a school accurately reflect the day to day running of every school?

On the point of pastoral care, ofcourse schools will be required to continue giving it: by I think that Ofsted should highlight it in their reports. Like you say ShanahansRevenge, for parents, it gives an overview of the feel of a school and it's ethos which is as important as the results. If you can not visit a school yourself, then this is one way of getting information from an independent source.

No Shamster I am not referring to this thread in isolation, I recall at least one other thread you started, that I contributed to that had the same alarmist tone.
The truth is we have a White paper that outlines planned changes but until we get details everything you are saying remains speculation. I for one refuse to run around shouting "the sky is falling" and will wait until we know more details of the proposed changes.

Shamster, if you think I have been rude, then there is a 'report' facility where MN will delete the post - please feel free to use this.

"Just to finish: I agree with Dylexia action. This comes from their website:
There is still to be, accountability, including inspections and a degree of prescription in some areas. So, for example, schools are being given a very clear steer that synthetic phonics is 'the best method for teaching reading'. And, to digress a little at this point, I would agree that it is the best method through which to begin the process of teaching reading, but it does not cover all of what must be learned and there remain some children who will need additional methods."

Have you a link for this, please?

Feenie, it's re, not r.e.

Even if you can visit a school you want some idea of what the care is like from the opinon of people who have been educated in these matters and who have spent some time at the school looking at it.

Having a walk around with the head isn't enough.

www.dyslexiaaction.org.uk/Blog/education-white-paper

I teach in a school which is designated as being in one of the most socially and economically deprived areas (yes with over 50% on the SEN register at any one time) and yet we continually achieve over 50% level 5 and high 90% at level 4 in the KS2 SATs and we do that by not accepting that just because these children arrive with low ability that has to continue for the rest of their school careers.

ShanahansRevenge you seem to have great faith in the ability of Ofsted inspectors do you realise how much training some of them actually receive or that some of them have never worked in education?

No Mrz....how much training do they get?

I'm really pleased that your school achieves these high results. That's brilliant and I think teachers need to aim high with the children they have. Does that mean you think CVA is a bad thing. I'm only asking because I was under the impression that schools that were fine, will be seen as failing. Atleast that was the impression we all left with after our meeting. We do not accept that children who arrive with low scores will do badly either. Show me a teacher that does; but it vertainly is harder for schools to achieve levels when you are in an area where parents don't work with you, on the whole. Do you do lots of parent workshops; how do you gte them onboard? I'm genuinely interested. We have a cohort of parents that do not attend meetings, or workshops and when we try to engage them, they are very reluctant for whatever reason. Any ideas welcome.