What do you think of the Education White Paper?

[Shamster]

Our head went through the key points at last nights staff meeting and the effect was pretty depressing. Sounds stupid but two of us almost started crying! Just wondered if anyone has read it for themselves, rather than picking up whichever bits each paper decides to highlight according to their leanings. If you have; what do you think?

Feenie, I haven't reported you. What's been said has been said and I think people have a right to say what they want. It's the patronising impliations that I don't like but we're obviously just very dfferent people. I have no idea about your capabilities as a teacher neither would I make an assumption based on what I've read here. To comment on my practise, you'd have to see me teach.
LilyBolero, I'd forgotten about that poem. I love it. Mind you, be prepared to have it taken apart on here. One is another word that's also tricky. Not sure what's happened to my initial letters on this post? They seem to have disappeared into the left hand margin as I type.

mrz: Good grief! The required qualifications I listed came from the Govt Connexions website. Nice to see how well (?) it's adhered to in practice.

Ofsted do need looking at and leave a lot to be desired. The outcome of your inspection can very much depend on the individual backgrounds of the inspectors. We had tow inspectors watch the same lesson and come to differnt conclusions. It was a Reception lesson which one, the Early Years specialist, thought was brilliant. The other inspector criticed the fact that children were 'playing'.

We had one inspection team (3 people) lead inspector was former Secondary head, another had worked in FE and the third was the MD of his own company ...

Granted, I'm guessing that our school will gain from the cva going but lose out on the pupils premium. I think the key bit that made us worry most was the Academy bit. Basically if you drop below the 'floor' they'll shut you and reopen you as an Academy under the management of the the nearest 'outstanding' academy. Given that many of our SEN children do very well with us and then get lost in the system there, for whatever reason, that worries me. I can't see how they would be better placed than us to deal with our children. The whole Academy system, in my opinion, is floored. It encourages schools to compete against each other, not work with each other. How will they retain teachers in the schools that are close to the 'floor'?

Nice of you to decide I am allowed an opinion, Shamster.

I don't think I have commented on your practice - I asked you questions about it, and, told you your views on phonics teaching were irresponsible and hysterical and that the use picture clues isn't a valid reading strategy. I expressed surprise that you thought English wasn't phonetically regular, and explained to you why the words you cited were mostly decodable.

??? Why are still trying to fight? The words 'rresponsible'and 'hysterical' are the words I take issue with. Sorry if I am mixed up as to which person said what thing. I don't like being called 'dear' by a fellow adult, unless they are being affectionate, which I presume you weren't. Yes, I do get my 's' and my 'c' mixed up in that particular word. Thanks for helpfully pointing it out. I was taught phonetically at school.

I am confused - you seem genuinely unable to separate reasonable debate ad discussion from 'fighting'. You warn me of MNHQ policy, yet ae quite unable to find a post where I was actually rude.

What you said about phonics teaching was wrong, and irresponsible. Some parents will read this and assume that, because you are a teacher, phonics teaching must be as you say - taught without a love of reading, comprehension, etc. Mrz is right - it's scaremongering. Don't expect not to be pulled up on it - on any public forum. It's tosh.

You originally brought up the reporting thing. Ok, here's what I actually think. I think anyone who claims that English is a phonetically regular language is wrong. I disagree completely with you on that, as I think you know. I think that phonics is a very valuable tool that complements the whole reading process. I worry when I find people as fanatical as you about one particular way of teaching; it scares me. I prefer to look at the children first and take into account the way that they learn best. This is why I am a SENCo. Reasonable dabate is one thing, but several people weigh in an say things like, boot me out etc, not you I know, then I'm sorry if I appear a little defensive. I'm going away for the weekdend now so won't be able to reply. I haven't warned you of any consequences. Parents are not simply slaves to what teachers believe. They do make up their own minds about what suits their child, and in my opinion, they are almost always right!

"You originally brought up the reporting thing."

Really?

"Shamster Sat 27-Nov-10 08:29:56
Feenie; last time I'm going to respond to you. You have been insulting and you have been rude. MNHQ do not actually tolerate any rudeness and there is no justification for it."

" Add message | Report | Message poster Feenie Sat 27-Nov-10 09:22:19
Shamster, if you think I have been rude, then there is a 'report' facility where MN will delete the post - please feel free to use this."

Your choice of 'picture clues' first in a list of valid reading strategies frightens me more.

I am not fanatical about one particular way of teaching - I am mostly certainly fanatical about bollocks being posted about it on a public parenting forum though.

I think I can see the spirit in which this was written, but I have a few doubts about some of the points.

I do have my doubts about CVA as I have experienced this being tweaked heavily. My DD1 was in a school with quite a deprived catchment; to the shock and horror of me and several other parents, MOST of the kids were marked so LOW at the beginning of Foundation (1s and 2s!) and looked as though they had achieved AMAZING progress (but still low by national standards) by the end of the year. This practice was rife throughout the school.

I was talking to a very good friend who has been a Headteacher in primaries for 20 years - she told me that this problem was also rife at her current school and she had huge trouble stamping it out; she says that teachers had come to see themselves as social workers, as they thought that the kids were so deprived that education was not at the top of their agenda. Her school is now achieving very very well - probably like Mrz's school.

I just wanted to give this view - it might be a controversial one, but it might be one of the reasons why CVA was scrapped???

Shamster I agree with you, it's a shame we didn't get a good discussion on the merits of the white paper - it certainly would have been more interesting than the attack on your teaching.

I think you may be right, emy72 - low expectations are definitely an issue in some schools.

Shamster I think if your Head couldn't put a positive spin on the White Paper then that it worth crying over.

The New Government's commitment to SSP is laudable. Checking at 6 that pupils are on track sounds like a good idea too as does involving Ofsted in the 'checking'.

Off for lunch, back later with some more thoughts.

"Shamster I agree with you, it's a shame we didn't get a good discussion on the merits of the white paper - it certainly would have been more interesting than the attack on your teaching. "

Me too! I just popped back to see if any of my points had been looked at, but no, point scoring galore.

grumpypants I think your points were about "exclusions" and teachers requiring at least a 2.2 ?

An interesting read on what determines the range of reading attainment in a country. Towards the end there is a discussion on the complexities of learing to read in English. Our results look pretty good overall and nowhere near as dire as is commonly portrayed.

mrz or anyone else, care to comment?

I noticed that the 2009 PISA results are out at the beginning of Dec. Does anyone (ie the Gove or Gov.)have any info about them ahead of the publication date?

Yes mrz - just wondered what anyone else thought?

I think teachers should be well qualified and that training should be rigorous (I'm not convinced that Teach First will produce teachers who will remain in teaching but I'm prepared to be proved wrong).
Exclusions - at the moment it is an extremely difficult to exclude a child so often the other children's education suffers along with the child in question - sometimes exclusion is the quickest route to get appropriate support. I welcome the idea that all children in alternative provision will get full time appropriate education.
I don't think it will lead to more exclusions as it isn't a course that schools take lightly.

I do agree re: education otherwise being looked at - not sure about PRUs becoming academies. How is it difficult to exclude a child - is your experience of reinstatement?

I'm not sure about academies full stop...the successes seem to be because lots of funding has been thrown at them but we are now in a very different place financially

pickledsiblings it's quite an old piece of research (pre Rose review - Clackmannanshire etc) but agree that things aren't as bleak as sometimes reported in the popular press. However saying that every child should have the right to reach their full potential and be literate and numerate adults.

I would imagine that select parties will have access to the PISA results before the 7th December

Feenie - not sure if you imagine your comments aimed at shamster make you look clever and superior, but they don't, they just make you look shockingly rude, and both ignorant and narrow-minded as far as the specific matter of English being a phonetically-regular language goes.

Speaking as a parent, again, I think testing at 6 seems utterly pointless and needless stress for both kids and teachers.

Hate academies - would hate my kids to go to one.

Shocked on comments re inspections - would explain why I've seen inspectors repeatedly miss blatant failings.