I resent school.

[spidermama]

I have a sneaking feeling I'll be the only one thinking this .... again ... but I'm really wishing I didn't have to send my kids to school five days a week.
It seems school presents something new to irritate me every day. Today brought news that parents who take their children out of school during SATs (don't even get me started on SATs [agnry]) will be fined.
I think this is outrageous interference.

You are right, tomorrow sounds yuck. Hope that it isn't too bad.

We have an open evening tomorrow, which will be fun but hard work....I will not be home before 9

One of the good things about school is that our children learn that they are cared for by other adults. It widens the circle of carers for them. I am assuming that the majority of teachers do care about their charges. This should go towards building their confidence.

I didn't enjoy school but I can see that DS does. As long as this is the case I'm happy.

Spidermama, it sounds like the actual school your children are attending is wanting. If your dd is not being challenged, that's not the fault of the system per se (although won't argue with you about the ed system being inflexible and one size fits all) but of the individual class/ school. Have you thought of looking for another school, before you go down the home ed path? Or is that not an option?

Re homework for 5 year olds, btw, what tends to happen where my DB teaches, is that the middle class parents who resent it and think it's a pita do it anyway, because they're resigned to the fact that they have to be seen to be supporting the school, and the parents who don't have books in their house and don't value education don't do it. The kids can go for literally half a term with the same reading book coming back unread.

So in fact, instead of levelling the playing field a bit, it's re-inforcing the disadvantage of the children whose parents don't value education/ reading/ books. That's my primary objection to it - it's doing the opposite of what it claims to do.

Spidermama, is it possible to investigate sending your children to another school? Maybe it's just this particular school that isn't right. If the internet and resources had been available when my dd1 started school in '92 I would have HE'd her. As it was, we moved and she went to a tiny village school when she was nine and, my, what a difference it made! She began to love going to school and now her little sister adores it possibly even more!

Thinking about HEing - it doesn't have to be forever. Your children could return to school at any point in the future if you felt that was for the best. I have an HEing friend in Worthing, which I think isn't far from Brighton. She belongs to various HE groups and her four children do all sorts of things through that which also takes care of the social aspect. I could ask her for details and info, if you'd be interested.

Intereting point Caligula, what does your DB think would be better at leveling the field....honest question not being provocative btw?

quick post-Steiner schools do not normally have fixed fees-part of the application would be a meeting with the treasury committee to decide what you can afford. Obviuosly with 4 kids that would be less than 1! IME they tend to like and support large families.

Don't know how Steiner schools generally are about flexischooling. Ours is likely to be flexible because it has only just opened. Think the one in Brighton is far more estalished?

I'm not a big fan of them per se. They are ultimately religous schools. But they do offer a lot of chance to play in the early years, while giving the kids a community.

Really really reccomend John Holt, also John Taylor Gatto (New York teacher of the year who used his acceptance speech to give the education system a dressing down), EO website gives, I think, some fairly persuasive arguements on the socialisation issue.

Again, good luck. Would be interested to know how many Mnters have/are HEing.

Hmm, dunno HMB - I'll ask him!

I think he would probably say something along the lines of the education system on its own can't level the field - it can only contribute a certain amount to equality. But it can't single-handedly take on all the other problems associated with poverty and social exclusion and yet all governments have disproportionately leaned on the education system to solve social problems which are frankly way outside its remit or capability, without actually giving them the resources to even begin to tackle them effectively (that last bit's me talking, not him! )

Agree, agree, agree.

We get kids will all sorts of problems, that some of them even get to school ins a minor miracle. They are outside school far more than they are in, out of control and most often deeply unhappy, and we are expected to change them round with no assistance or funding.

One thing I would like to say about home eding is to comment on the point that someone made that you don't need to be an expert in the subject to help facilitate your child's learning. I would differ a little on this one.

When I teach a subject I have a very good idea of the areas of difficulty that almost all children will have, because they often share particular misunderstandings about how the world works. these misunderstandings are almost universal and cross countries/racial/religious barriers.

Because I know what to look out for I can help the kids to 'unpick' their misaprehensions. For expample most people, adults included, think that a heavy object falls faster than a light one, or that an object fired out to 90 degrees will hit the floor after an object that is just dropped (they will hit the ground at the same time). people interested in this should look into the work of Rosalind Driver.

I know that this is true for science and feel sure that it is true for other subjects as well. While I agree that there are other ways round this issue (tutors night school etc) I don;t honestly think that having a depth of understanding of the subject is not a massive advantage when teaching children.

Can I ask those teachers who have concerns about the NC - I'm not really up to speed with it but what is it that concerns you. I sort of imagined that at primary level you could fit most things into a NC area but have I got that wrong.

I am particularly concerned because my ds is an eccentric little chap - clearly clever (he turned four last week, can read, add, subtract, even multiply a little) but has dyspraxia, is clumsy, socially immature/eccentric, and is just different. I am very unsure that a school will know what to do with him, and worried that a class of 30 children will not be the best place for him. I don't think a Steiner school would suit him at all - he LOVES reading and maths - but even though we live near what in London is considered an excellent primary, I am just so concerned for him.
I hated school, every single second of it, from 5 to 18, and of course that colours my view, I can't deny it, but I see so much of myself in him. I feign tremendous enthusiam though!
I suppose I will have to wait and see, and go from there.

I hope he'll have a good time aloha. fwiw, my personal experience is that good London state schools can accomodate eccentric little chaps extremely well. Both mine are a bit odd in different ways but one can be especially so. He loves school. Really hope that your boy will feel the same.

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To be fair to the govt, they are presumably aware that schooling as it's currently constructed is a very inflexible process. Which I suppose is why they've legislated to allow schools to be set up by parents, state funding of Steiner schools, etc.

I found it very sad today though, to hear that their method of dealing with truancy is going to be to collect a list of truants and prosecute their parents. Um... joined up thinking, please?

But Oops schools are not about 'looking after children' they are about educating them!

I find this a hard debate to enter really. On teh one hand I think formal education starts too early, on the other hand my two seem to be relishing it!

We try to retain a little control over things like homework - setting a timer for 20 mins on DDs homework at the weekend if she finishes good, if not tough luck! Always write in teh contact book that this is the decision we took! However I also do helpful things like marking the childrens homework - and writing improvement ideas in their books. My DD's teacher made her cringe the other day by telling her 'your mother is a very sensible woman'

I try hard to be a participative parent for my children;s benefits - but I keep the teachers on their toes too! I'm not pushy per se, but I'm alert!

It probably helps that they are at an independent school, but many state schools would do just as well!

I do worry though that many of you are projecting your dislike of school onto your children. Isn't this about them, rather than you??? Taking positive slant on school keeps more options open for them in the long run! However, from what I know of you all on here - you are probably all skilled operators at keeping your views from the children. And what I do know is that you are only trying to do what is best for them - albeit things are clouded by your own experiences!

I didn't hate school, but found it incredibly tedious! However, that tediousness is probably what has instilled a life long love of learning! Shame school never really got it

Soapbox, I think when kids start school at 4, that is the big conflict isn't it - that they're not there to look after them, they're there to school them.

Whereas most child experts agree that 4 year olds don't need schooling, they need educating and looking after.

I think a lot of negativity about school goes back to that one single problem - children starting school long before they have the social or learning skills to be able to cope with it. And schools not being geared towards being able to cope with that.

In my area, the education authority is talking about allowing children to start school at 3 and a half. And of course, once that starts happening, it no longer becomes about "allowing" it, it becomes necessary, because otherwise they miss the gentle, acclimatising reception year. But nobody's talking about giving schools more resources so that they can deal with the extra childcare issues accepting children of 3 into schools create. They're just pretending there are no childcare issues. Presumably, they're planning to treat them as if they're 5.

I hope he finds a great teacher who thinks that eccentric boys are the bees knees, and encourages his passion for story and poetry writing. Then he can keep us all in our old age

I agree Caligula but people send their children to nursery at 2½ - some in south Manchester and I suspect elsewhere even have uniforms!

I never took any of mine to nursery (except ds2 when I was helping to run one!)

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Caligula, I'm sure that there are exceptions but most of the schools I know of do very little formal teaching in reception. Learning through play seems to be the most popular concept. I would say out of my DS's day in reception last year, only 30mins was spent on reading or writing in a formal setting.

The rest of it was all about playing, albeit with educational toys. Most of the time was spent outdoors, weather permitting!

I think it is possible to educate rather than teach in teh early years but whether that is more effective than learning at home, I would not like to presume!

Oops - I didn't express myself very well, I fear

Its not that they don't look after them, its that the purpose is not just 'containment' it is 'learning'.

The teachers at my DCs' school are extremely kind and caring and seemed to genuinely enjoy the children in their care

I also don't agree that all children aren't ready for school at four. My older daughter has been very ready for this sort of setting - not just 'educationally' but emotionally too - for about six months now and after a spectacularly rocky start she is clearly in the place she needs to be. I was very similar.

Agree - I went to school at 4 and a half, and was more than ready, I could already read and write and was gagging to get in the classroom.

But to have a system where some kids could start at 4, and some could start at 6, would require vastly more amounts of funding, than any government would dare to commit to.

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